Advice please - boundary fence and neighbours' dog

slopemaster

Interesting point about tenants being responsible for upkeep of fences as this would never even have occurred to me. (As LL or as tenant!)
I had a look at the contract and it is a little unclear.
It defines 'the property' as including fences etc but says nothing specific about maintenance of them. The section on "Maintenance and Care of the Garden"
says the tenant is
"To cut the grass of the Property with an appropriate garden mower as necessary from time to time to keep the grass in a neat and tidy condition.
Furthermore, to keep the patio areas, paths, garden areas, lawns, flower beds,
shrubs or bushes and borders as tidy, weed free and in seasonal order as at the commencement of the tenancy."

So I take it to mean maintenance of fences is LL responsibility.
But nowhere does it explicitly say one way or t'other.

(I wouldn't ask them to pay anyway as it just seems unreasonable - they're only there for 6 months and it's not their fault a huge branch comes off a tree - not 'normal maintenance' replacing a 10m length of fencing.)

slopemaster

Thanks again to all (but one) of you for the helpful info and opinions.

mikey72

It's all down to the bottom line on a rental, if you're the LL. Is it cheaper to leave it, and have your tenants garden full of next doors dog crap, or ask them to replace it at their cost, both with the good chance they'll leave, and then lose on a few hundred pounds rent for a month or two, , or spend a tenner on a new panel, and stick it as an expense on the tax return? Depends on how long term the tenants are.

mikey72

iamcornholio wrote: »

It's standard Landlord and Tenant law. Unless specifically stated otherwise in the agreement, the tenant is responsible for the garden, fences/walls, sheds, paving (unless a main access path) and the stuff growing in it.

I have not read the tree thread as it seemed a bit of a squabble

Arguably the tenants responsibility goes about as far as cutting the grass. Anything else they are only obliged to repair/replace if they're negligent.

keystone

plumface wrote: »

Whats LL ?:cool:

LandLord. Dear me!!

Cheers

keystone

Crikey Moses how big is this garden and how big was the lump that fell off the tree?

slopemaster wrote: »

In recent high winds a big branch came off a tree and and demolished a section of boundary fence. (Tall panel fencing)...................It's not really visible from either house....

slopemaster wrote: »

.......replacing a 10m length of fencing.....

Whatever - stick your hand in your pocket and get the damaged section replaced. 'Tis an eyesore if nothing else. You'll keep this tenant happy, the neighbour happy, your next tenant happy and you can charge the cost as maintenance against your tax bill on income from the property. If its a panel fence as you say what are we talking about here £ 200 - £ 250 for 10 metres? Even less if you DIY it. Its barely scratching the skin off a months rent I'll wager?

Cheers

iamcornholio

slopemaster wrote: »

Interesting point about tenants being responsible for upkeep of fences as this would never even have occurred to me. (As LL or as tenant!)

Typically the L&T Act 1985 will apply, and this implies certain terms in to the tenancy agreement

(a) keep in repair the structure and exterior of the dwelling-house, including drains, gutters and external pipes,

(b) keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for the supply of water, gas and electricity and for sanitation (including basins, sinks, baths and sanitary conveniences, but not other fixtures, fittings and appliances for making use of the supply of water, gas or electricity), and

(c) keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for space heating and heating water.

That's it.

Over time, the courts have defined what those things are, but fences are not included

The only way for a fence to become a landlords responsibility under the tenancy agreement is if it is implicitly written in to it. It can't be inferred by not being mentioned

mikey72

iamcornholio wrote: »

Typically the L&T Act 1985 will apply, and this implies certain terms in to the tenancy agreement

(a) keep in repair the structure and exterior of the dwelling-house, including drains, gutters and external pipes,

(b) keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for the supply of water, gas and electricity and for sanitation (including basins, sinks, baths and sanitary conveniences, but not other fixtures, fittings and appliances for making use of the supply of water, gas or electricity), and

(c) keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for space heating and heating water.

That's it.

Over time, the courts have defined what those things are, but fences are not included

The only way for a fence to become a landlords responsibility under the tenancy agreement is if it is implicitly written in to it. It can't be inferred by not being mentioned

And it's not the tenants responsibility by any stretch of that definition. There is absolutely no responsibility for the tenant to repair or maintain it. The op can leave it down, the tenant can move to a house with a fence, the op can do nothing about it.

iamcornholio

mikey72 wrote: »

And it's not the tenants responsibility by any stretch of that definition.

You will find that the courts have a very different view to yours

Stan_Here

I would say that the fencing is part of the structure and infrastructure of the property and therefore the responsibility of the LL. If a tenant was there long term you could require them to paint the fences as general garden maintenance and upkeep but not replace them. You should have insurance that covers weather events that bring trees/branches down, unless, of course, you have failed to deal with old or diseased trees.

Get it fenced otherwise you will have damage done by dogs and it will also make the property look neglected with part of a fence down. This will make it difficult to get new tenants who may consider you to be a bad landlord when it comes to getting any problems fixed.