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Summons to Court - Daughter 'apparently' not wearing seat belt!!

Hi Guys,

Hoping someone can offer me some advice on the bright side for this matter.

On 16th February i was taking my daughter, along with some friends (travelling in another car) to Bradford Media Museum. On our way travelling along Leeds Road, Bradford the Police are doing a police operation of trying to capture those not wearing seat belts, on mobile phones etc.

An officer on the side of the road angrily points hard to my car to which a PCSO directs me where to pull round to. On stopping by the officer who had pointed to the car, he approaches and asks if i know why i've been stopped to which i reply no. He then says that 'I' wasn't wearing a seatbelt but goes on to quickly change his mind and say my passenger wasn't wearing a belt. The passenger is my daughter who is 14, and has always worn a seatbelt. The danger risks of not wearing one has always been drilled into both my children, and obviously what can happen if one is not worn.

When i told the officer that she was in fact wearing one, he returned with 'no she wasn't, when she saw me point to the car she quickly reached round to put it on'. This did not happen as is was already on. After some argument back and forth - yes she did - no she didn't, etc, i asked for his badge number and his colleague (the PCSO) as i was going to make a complaint. He gave me both badge numbers and went on to say i could either pay the £60 fine on the spot or elect to go to court - i obviously elected court!

The court summons has now arrived, attached to the back of the summons are the statements from both the PC and the PCSO - both stating a different date and time of this supposed failure to wear seat belt by my daughter. Discrepancies also show as to the clothing that she was wearing and both say that they had a clear and unobstructed view of the vehicle at all times?!

I went up to Bradford Police Station that same evening and made a complaint about the Officer and the way that he failed to even listen to what i had to say, and his failure to be 100% sure of whether it was me or my daughter without a belt. They said that i was doing the right thing by going to court.

Other people have said that i would be wasting my time by going as the officers would lie anyway and i would end up paying the fine and court costs too. I really don't want to accept a ticket for something that i / my daughter did not do. I was a law student myself for 3 years and was never under the impression that anyone should admit guilt if that was not the case. I asked my daughter if she wanted to go to court and she has said yes. She said we didn't do anything wrong, and if someone said you'd commit murder and you knew you hadn't - would you admit it anyway and go to prison?! This i believe is a valid point. It's the principle of the matter that is getting to me more than anything.

Before we headed to Bradford, we ate in McDonalds car park where my daughter (as she always tends to do!!) was taking pictures of herself and her new make-up look - these were taken 40 mins prior to been stopped by the Police - could these be used as proof that she was indeed wearing a seatbelt. Both friends who i was with have said that they would be witnesses for me to prove we didn't go anywhere else from McDonalds other than to Bradford!

Sorry for the long drawn out post...frustrated!! :mad::mad:

Thanks Guys
:oLightbulb Moment : 15.04.12 :o
:eek: Total Debt at Present : £2,652.23 :eek:
CC1 £802.96; CC2 £700.00; CC3 £331.94; Car Repairs £270.00; Littlewoods £179.00; EDF £151.77; BT £144.18; Halifax O/D £53.00; O2 £22.38
Nerd #898
:T Proud to be dealing with my debt :T
«13

Replies

  • vax2002vax2002
    7.2K Posts
    Forumite
    Call the police station and request a video identity parade and ask both officers to identify your daughter from the video line up.
    They wont be able to so out will go the case, if they can not identify the suspect how on earth can they claim to have a clear and unobstructed view.
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
  • ItismehonestItismehonest Forumite
    4.4K Posts
    Forumite
    I believe that often in these cases the police may have their own evidence taken, for example, from onboard videos in cars following people. These would also record the date & time.
    If you're absolutely sure your daughter had her belt on then I think it will be up to the police to prove otherwise.
  • If your daughter is 14 then the driver is not responsible. A person over 14 is responsible for wearing their own seat belt.

    Clearly apart from getting the facts wrong, they have also got the law wrong.

    It sounds from your account that they have charged you and not her.
  • dee8788dee8788 Forumite
    22 Posts
    That would be a great idea VAX2002 - i do have great respect for the police and everything they do, and i know i'll be one of many that is a victim of their targets and money making. The truth never seems to be important, and i know people do tell lies to get out of things, and it feels like all the police are wanting to do it get another conviction under their belts. So frustrating.

    Itismehonest i tried using that when i went to the station later on, saying that no video van was present in my defence or theirs for that matter. I rang Bradford Metropolitan Council regarding the CCTV cameras that are spread out on that road to ask if the cameras were likely to have captured us where we were - i was told that they only keep the video stuff for 31 days after a date! That idea has gone!
    :oLightbulb Moment : 15.04.12 :o
    :eek: Total Debt at Present : £2,652.23 :eek:
    CC1 £802.96; CC2 £700.00; CC3 £331.94; Car Repairs £270.00; Littlewoods £179.00; EDF £151.77; BT £144.18; Halifax O/D £53.00; O2 £22.38
    Nerd #898
    :T Proud to be dealing with my debt :T
  • Look here it is on the Government website. If they charged you and not her then there is no case to answer.

    I would guess your daughter looks under 14 and they assumed?

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/travelandtransport/roadsafetyadvice/dg_4022064
  • [QUOTE=dee8788;52830823-_both_stating_a_different_date_and_time_of_this_supposed_failure_to_wear_seat_belt_by_my_daughter._[/QUOTE]

    Surly this alone will get it kicked straight out of court anyway !
    Hi Ho Silver Awayyyyyyyyyy
  • I doubt any CPS lawyer would want to prosecute this case. I would expect it to be dropped as soon as they read the file. If the officers made statements that do not agree in material particulars, and they failed to establish the girl's age (I am assuming that to be the case) then it will be a doomer.
  • Kite2010Kite2010 Forumite
    4.3K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Home Insurance Hacker! Car Insurance Carver!
    Forumite
    Unless the CPS lawyer is a young person with a big head and wants to try and make a good impression and tries to take it on.
  • dee8788dee8788 Forumite
    22 Posts
    Thanks for all the replies guys, the summons was actually addressed to my daughter, to which she has to fill out income / outgoings along with how she wishes to plead. I understand that at the age of 14 she is responsible for wearing her seatbelt, and that I as the driver am supposed to ensure that all passengers are wearing them....as i always do! I've never had to remind her to put it on, she knows she has to wear it! I'm definately going to go to court and at least put my point forward. My dad has also said the same thing, at least i know i have tried - all i can do!
    :oLightbulb Moment : 15.04.12 :o
    :eek: Total Debt at Present : £2,652.23 :eek:
    CC1 £802.96; CC2 £700.00; CC3 £331.94; Car Repairs £270.00; Littlewoods £179.00; EDF £151.77; BT £144.18; Halifax O/D £53.00; O2 £22.38
    Nerd #898
    :T Proud to be dealing with my debt :T
  • HO87HO87 Forumite
    4.3K Posts
    Kite2010 wrote: »
    Unless the CPS lawyer is a young person with a big head and wants to try and make a good impression and tries to take it on.
    Or an older, inadequately trained and poorly motivated one, of course, who sees the blind pursuit of a no-brainer as a means of expressing their frustration with an utterly carp employer that is focussed on matching targets not on achieving anything vaguely approaching justice for anyone. :mad:
    My very sincere apologies for those hoping to request off-board assistance but I am now so inundated with requests that in order to do justice to those "already in the system" I am no longer accepting PM's and am unlikely to do so for the foreseeable future (August 2016). :(

    For those seeking more detailed advice and guidance regarding small claims cases arising from private parking issues I recommend that you visit the Private Parking forum on PePiPoo.com
This discussion has been closed.
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