Landlord fraudulently changed contract

CIS

I wonder if there's anything I could do about it.

You can either go to the police for fraud (they'd probably not investigate due to the relatively low level - which is a pain as its still fraud) or you could try a small claims court but you'd have to quantify any loss you had suffered (which is difficult).

The law isn't stacked in favour of these people but getting a (relatively) low level fraud investigated is difficult as the police tend to concentrate their resources on the larger crimes (understandable but frustrating).

caela_2

CIS wrote: »

The law isn't stacked in favour of these people but getting a (relatively) low level fraud investigated is difficult as the police tend to concentrate their resources on the larger crimes (understandable but frustrating).

Sounds reasonable I guess, might be worth a try if I have most of the evidence laid out for them then it could be a walk through. I guess it's not serious fraud but I was shocked to be honest it takes things to a whole new level.

CIS

I guess it's not serious fraud but I was shocked to be honest it takes things to a whole new level.

This is one of the things that makes my job difficult, if it wasn't for con-artist landlords it would be so much easier and cheaper to administer council tax.

mchale

CIS wrote: »

This is one of the things that makes my job difficult, if it wasn't for con-artist landlords it would be so much easier and cheaper to administer council tax.

Thats a rather sweeping statement to make.

princeofpounds

This isn't fraud. It might be what we would call fradulent behaviour, but I doubt it's a case of fraud perpetrated by the landlord on you.

The landlord isn't obtaining money from you via deception.

It's council tax evasion. The only question is who is responsible. It's a matter between either you and the council or the landlord and the council.

The complicating factor is that you are both relying on the same piece of (contradicting) evidence.

CIS

Thats a rather sweeping statement to make.

I never said all landlords were con-artists.

caela_2

It's frustrating because we're still in the throes of this and we're hoping the landlord (a consistent source of harassment) will really get hit with the council tax bill nice, hard and where it hurts. I couldn't ask for more.

I have raised my concerns with the council and they've been helpful, but they seem vague with how to approach the matter. They've even suggested, rather cheekily I might add, that it was up to me to sort out with the landlord!

I take it very serious when someone breaks my contractual trust in this way and it's not the first time he's done it. He withheld our contracts in the first place and it was only down to my house-mate's determination that we even have a copy at all.

Someone above suggested perhaps he is guilty of council tax evasion, would anyone know how I'd pursue this or convince the council to? I know it may not be a case of fraud, but I feel it is since had I not had the original contract (which he believed I didn't), I would have been stuck footing his council tax bill of over £500 because he fraudulently amended our contract with this aim in mind. The council have already taken me to court over this bill and it's not even mine to pay! Most frustratingly, but perhaps inevitably to my benefit, the council's own Private Sector Housing dept. licensed this particular property as an HMO! I know they are 2 separate departments, but I have since told them of the property's status and hopefully, this will provide additional proof.

I may sound terribly hard done by, but I don't want him getting away with this, he's certainly not fit to be a landlord and should be stopped before he puts anyone else under this undue stress. We had to put up with terrible conditions in that house when at times, it flooded with RAW sewage. This filled the kitchen and bathrooms, which we were left to clean! The council even deemed it unfit to live in and gave the landlord an order to fix the property immediately. We then had work-men in, swearing at us and literally trampling foul matter all over our towels and toiletries and into our kitchen. Needless to say, we had no bathroom or kitchen facilities for a good few days. Not to mention the damage this did to our stuff during the five or six times it happened, covering most of our clothes and shoes in sewage when they were in the kitchen for laundering. On top of that, we were constantly threatening with eviction and the landlord let himself and his agents into the property without any notice, even so that I had to call the police on him.

I really hope this will be the final nail in his fake career as a landlord, the smarmy swindling so and so!

CIS

the council's own Private Sector Housing dept. licensed this particular property as an HMO! I know they are 2 separate departments, but I have since told them of the property's status and hopefully, this will provide additional proof.

It can help your case but not all licensed HMO's are Council Tax HMO's

musey

posted asimilar response to the one I’m about to post on another thread where thedebate was is it a HMO or not? And if it is does that mean the LL is responsiblefor council tax.

To my mind much here hangs on what it says in the contract and the billing arrangements of the council are a bit of a red herring. To try to explain what Imean, if the contract says the tenant is responsible for paying council taxthen surely that is still the case? The fact that the council chose to bill thelandlord because it is a HMO only means that the landlord will have to pay butwould then seek to hold the tenant to the contract and have them pay? I saythis not to be inflammatory or to upset the op but it would be my view that ifthe tenancy agreement that is signed by the tenant says that tenant agrees topay the council tax then that is what the landlord will expect. Obviously inthe first instance they hoped the council would bill the tenant but in theevent of them not doing so I would imagine they would then refer back to thecontract and bill them as per their obligations under the agreement.


Just a different view to think about.

Obviously the landlord has been foolish in trying to alter the tenancy agreement so as to avoid being billed by the council but whether that absolves the tenant from agreeing to pay (if indeed that is what the agreement they signed says) is perhaps another matter.

caela_2

musey wrote: »

posted asimilar response to the one I’m about to post on another thread where thedebate was is it a HMO or not? And if it is does that mean the LL is responsiblefor council tax.

To my mind much here hangs on what it says in the contract and the billing arrangements of the council are a bit of a red herring. To try to explain what Imean, if the contract says the tenant is responsible for paying council taxthen surely that is still the case? The fact that the council chose to bill thelandlord because it is a HMO only means that the landlord will have to pay butwould then seek to hold the tenant to the contract and have them pay? I saythis not to be inflammatory or to upset the op but it would be my view that ifthe tenancy agreement that is signed by the tenant says that tenant agrees topay the council tax then that is what the landlord will expect. Obviously inthe first instance they hoped the council would bill the tenant but in theevent of them not doing so I would imagine they would then refer back to thecontract and bill them as per their obligations under the agreement.


Just a different view to think about.

Obviously the landlord has been foolish in trying to alter the tenancy agreement so as to avoid being billed by the council but whether that absolves the tenant from agreeing to pay (if indeed that is what the agreement they signed says) is perhaps another matter.

Heya,

You're definitely right in saying that the particulars of a contract are important, but I think (and this is just how I see it, no lawyer here lol) that if a contract stipulates something which infringes on your rights or contrasts legislation, then that clause does not stand. I think it's something to do with unfair terms in contracts. It depends on the wording of the contract, ours simply states "the tenant agrees with the landlord... to pay any council tax which the tenant is obliged to pay under the Local Government Finance Act..." Under this act, we are not obliged to pay the council tax since the property is let as an HMO and therefore, the landlord is liable. However, I believe if it said something stating that should the landlord become liable for council tax through something the tenant has done (e.g. subletting) then the tenant shall pay an increased rent of such and such. But whatever they put, they aren't allowed to defy legislation.

It's definitely a bit of a head ache for something which should be a lot more simple! Phew!