Landlord fraudulently changed contract

caela_2

Hiya guys,

I was hoping someone could give me some advice on how to proceed with the below situation. Basically, as some of you may well know, we've had a string of complaints regarding our previous landlord and have since moved out of the property.

We recently got a letter from the council however, holding us liable for the entire council tax for the period we lived in that property (not as sole tenants). Whilst we were there, the council had taken us to court over the council tax, which we explained we did not owe in total as we were not the sole tenants. Anyway, it became clear that the property was actually an HMO (house in multiple occupation) and the council advised us that the ll was responsible for the council tax. They then wrote to him asking for a copy of the contract.

I was therefore shocked to see that after receiving the contract, they had taken back their advice and stated we were clearly in a joint tenancy agreement and therefore, liable for the council tax. I sent an email with a copy of our contract which I had obtained from a housemate (the only one to receive a contract from the ll who purposely withheld them after we signed, also refusing to have a witness counter-sign). I called today to chase it up when we realised the contracts were different and that the landlord had changed the front page (believing we didn't have a copy), so that it looked like a different type of tenancy (changing the 'rent' section from 'per room, per month, per person' to 'a household rental of £...) He was obviously trying to make it look like the property wasn't an HMO, although this was a complete lie, as we fit all the requirements under the standard test.

Does anyone know what to do in these situations? I am pretty sure this amounts to some sort of fraud, but don't know how to report it. Not sure it's a police issue. The council have kindly agreed to send us a copy of the contract he sent them with a covering letter, so hopefully we will have all the evidence soon. Would appreciate any advice- any questions, just ask, I know I'm a bit waffly and difficult to understand so please don't jump in and judge- just ask first and I'll clarify Thanks guys

DVardysShadow

If you start jumping up and down now, shouting 'fraud', the landlord will potentially have a lot more to fight for than just a disputed council tax responsibility. So just focus on getting the council to accept your version of the situation for the time being

pmlindyloo

Is there anything in your housemates contract which says anything about the council tax or alludes to it? eg Tenants are liable for CT/CT is included in the rent?

By the way - you are not waffly - perfectly clear.

PS Did you rent through an agency? If so would agency have anything on their records about whole house/renting rooms?

Difficulty is proving that the tenancy agreement was altered by LL - or you (sorry!)

Does the LL have a history of renting out other houses?

How many of you were renting out the house? Are you all students? (students are exempt from CT - just looking at possible ways to deal with this)

caela_2

DVardysShadow wrote: »

If you start jumping up and down now, shouting 'fraud', the landlord will potentially have a lot more to fight for than just a disputed council tax responsibility. So just focus on getting the council to accept your version of the situation for the time being

Heya,

Thanks for your reply. I think they will accept our version because we also had some investigations from the Private Sector Housing who I think had the house registered as an HMO. I also have a separate sheet signed by him, stating our individual rent as I had negotiated a lower rent for both my boyf which he didn't want the other tenants to see. So he agreed to sign this paper stating our separate rents and also, that we were allowed our 2 cats at the property. This kinda proves my version over his. Also, the contracts may not even stand in any way, as they weren't counter-signed by a witness and they seem to have a good few errors (it is obvious the contract was designed for one tenant and one landlord- not a joint/ several tenancy agreement). Don't know if that strengthens our case, plus we have the original email from my housemate sending me the contract scans so she can verify it was the original.

caela_2

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Is there anything in your housemates contract which says anything about the council tax or alludes to it? eg Tenants are liable for CT/CT is included in the rent?

By the way - you are not waffly - perfectly clear.

Hiya,

Aw thanks I usually manage to waffle away (I probably will end up doing it at some point!) Our contracts do actually say we are responsible for council tax/ bills (I think) but it is also clear that the household described is an HMO, which would mean (as I believe) that the landlord is legally responsible for the council tax and I think the clause in the contract would be invalid- it's an unfair term.

pmlindyloo

That's all good news.

So, since it all seems to be covered, is your question about what you can do about the LL fraudulently changing the contract?

caela_2

pmlindyloo wrote: »

That's all good news.

So, since it all seems to be covered, is your question about what you can do about the LL fraudulently changing the contract?

Yeah basically lol, I would like to report him in some way for it. He has put us through a lot of harassment during the time we lived there and did a lot of things illegally. I'm sure what he has done is highly illegal- trying to avoid paying council tax by amending a signed contract. :mad:

DVardysShadow

caela wrote: »

Heya,

Thanks for your reply. I think they will accept our version because we also had some investigations from the Private Sector Housing who I think had the house registered as an HMO. I also have a separate sheet signed by him, stating our individual rent as I had negotiated a lower rent for both my boyf which he didn't want the other tenants to see. So he agreed to sign this paper stating our separate rents and also, that we were allowed our 2 cats at the property. This kinda proves my version over his. Also, the contracts may not even stand in any way, as they weren't counter-signed by a witness and they seem to have a good few errors (it is obvious the contract was designed for one tenant and one landlord- not a joint/ several tenancy agreement). Don't know if that strengthens our case, plus we have the original email from my housemate sending me the contract scans so she can verify it was the original.

I think you are missing my point. Which is nothing to do with how strong your case is and everything to do with not putting the Landlord under great pressure to fight back.

As for whether the contract was witnessed, this is substantially irrelevant. A Deed must be witnessed, but a contract document need not be.I am not going explain the technical differences - enough to say you have a contract and it si not necessary for this to be witnessed.

caela_2

DVardysShadow wrote: »

I think you are missing my point. Which is nothing to do with how strong your case is and everything to do with not putting the Landlord under great pressure to fight back.

As for whether the contract was witnessed, this is substantially irrelevant. A Deed must be witnessed, but a contract document need not be.I am not going explain the technical differences - enough to say you have a contract and it si not necessary for this to be witnessed.

Cool thanks, I didn't know that. So you think for now I should let it slide until he kind of diggs his own grave? I'm not sure because in order to let the council know I am not liable, I have to bring to their attention the fact that he has counterfeited the original contract in his favour. In which case, he will become aware of this no doubt when the council inform him that there is a discrepancy between the 2 contracts and we fight it out from there. Even if I don't start reporting him for fraud at this stage, he will be fighting his guts out knowing if I can prove what he did, he's in a tonne of trouble.

pmlindyloo

caela wrote: »

Yeah basically lol, I would like to report him in some way for it. He has put us through a lot of harassment during the time we lived there and did a lot of things illegally. I'm sure what he has done is highly illegal- trying to avoid paying council tax by amending a signed contract. :mad:[/QUOTE]


I believe that this is not your responsibility. It is the council's decision whether to prosecute him for fraud.

As to what the LL did during the tenancy the time to have done something about it was when you were in the tenancy. Having said that, I presume you are talking about matters regarding your renting and not other criminal things:)

What do you hope to gain from this?

We all feel bitter and angry about some things but in most cases it is just not worth the hassle and time to 'move on'.

Let the council deal with the council tax business.

If you want to give details of the 'illegal things' he has done then we may be able to advise you.

When did your tenaqncy end, by the way?

caela_2

pmlindyloo wrote: »

caela wrote: »

If you want to give details of the 'illegal things' he has done then we may be able to advise you.

When did your tenaqncy end, by the way?

We were 'freed' from our tenancy (mutually agreed to end it before it was due) in Feb. He used to harass us all the time, illegally evicted one tenant, came round uninvited and without warning on several occasions to the point I could barely sleep at night and we feared for our safety (had to lock ourselves in), let the toilets flood raw sewage into our kitchen and bathrooms, covering our clothes which were in the laundry and didn't get a cleaner in so we had to clean it, loads of things! Withheld our contracts, put all the bills in my name, kept threatening to chuck us out, we had to call the police to get him removed from the property, he let other people in by giving the key out and they stole the back door key so they could gain access when they wanted, a list of things really. We'd be suing him for harassment. I could just let it slide, but to be honest, no. He has this coming. Every time I try to just forget about it, he does something new to convince me I really should take this further.