Landlord fraudulently changed contract

DVardysShadow

caela wrote: »

Cool thanks, I didn't know that. So you think for now I should let it slide until he kind of diggs his own grave? I'm not sure because in order to let the council know I am not liable, I have to bring to their attention the fact that he has counterfeited the original contract in his favour. In which case, he will become aware of this no doubt when the council inform him that there is a discrepancy between the 2 contracts and we fight it out from there. Even if I don't start reporting him for fraud at this stage, he will be fighting his guts out knowing if I can prove what he did, he's in a tonne of trouble.

You have to fight your corner hard to get the council to accept that the CT liability falls on the Landlord. And if that involves showing that he changed pages of the agreement, then so be it. I am just warning against bringing in the police at this stage

caela_2

DVardysShadow wrote: »

You have to fight your corner hard to get the council to accept that the CT liability falls on the Landlord. And if that involves showing that he changed pages of the agreement, then so be it. I am just warning against bringing in the police at this stage

Cool will take it on board probably best to go one step at a time anyway!

caela_2

Does anyone know how, when/ if I did decide to pursue it, that I would report this type of fraud?

CIS

Is there anything in your housemates contract which says anything about the council tax or alludes to it? eg Tenants are liable for CT/CT is included in the rent?

The landlord can say what he wants in the T/A re Council Tax payments but he cant override legislation. Anything that goes against legislation would have to be a personal payment arrangement between the occupiers and the landlord but it wouldn't affect the council creating liability as per legislation.

The council have kindly agreed to send us a copy of the contract he sent them with a covering letter, so hopefully we will have all the evidence soon.

That's very good evidence for any dispute which arises.

If the council will not amend liability then , once you have a copy of the relevant T/A's ,you would need to appeal to a Valuation Tribunal.

I also have a separate sheet signed by him, stating our individual rent as I had negotiated a lower rent for both my boyf which he didn't want the other tenants to see.

Probably the best evidence you can have at this stage if a tribunal is required.

Also, the contracts may not even stand in any way, as they weren't counter-signed by a witness and they seem to have a good few errors (it is obvious the contract was designed for one tenant and one landlord- not a joint/ several tenancy agreement)

I wouldn't push this issue as a clever landlord will come back with the fact that as you regard your contract as not valid then then terms don't apply and therefore you and your flatmates were not renting only a part of the property as he had not agreed this with you. You would then be liable for the council tax as the residents.

caela_2

Thank-you CIS, some very helpful points. I am pretty sure the council just want the bill paid and are fed up of having to wait, but hopefully they will see the obvious and land the bill with the sneaky landlord. If anything it just gives us more evidence of his harassment. It's scary to think that anyone could just make up a contract and copy your signature or staple extra pages to an already existing contract and what can you really do to prove that didn't happen? Can never be too careful now days. So glad we got that contract off our housemate and so glad we convinced her to get a copy from the ll because he sure wouldn't give us one. What a slimy gimp.

CIS

I am pretty sure the council just want the bill paid and are fed up of having to wait,

Yep, there's nothing worse than trying to work through HMO liability disputes.

It's scary to think that anyone could just make up a contract and copy your signature or staple extra pages to an already existing contract and what can you really do to prove that didn't happen?

I regularly knock back T/A's that have been submitted by landlords (we know who most of the dodgy ones are who try the same trick every time) which are iffy - they sometimes even contradict agreements and statements they've supplied earlier.

The best ones are landlords who submit copies of 'original agreements' on paper which is copyright marked several years later than the date of tenancy or who forget to change dates in the agreement...

caela_2

CIS wrote: »

The best ones are landlords who submit copies of 'original agreements' on paper which is copyright marked several years later than the date of tenancy or who forget to change dates in the agreement...

Looool! :rotfl:

caela_2

CIS do you know if the council will/ can prosecute the landlord for fraud at all?

CIS

CIS do you know if the council will/ can prosecute the landlord for fraud at all?

Probably not as there has been no physical loss to the council - it would be different if he was liable and he claimed extra discounts or exemptions he wasn't entitled to.

caela_2

CIS wrote: »

Probably not as there has been no physical loss to the council - it would be different if he was liable and he claimed extra discounts or exemptions he wasn't entitled to.

That's annoying but I guess it has caused them a loss because it's delayed the payment of council tax. He has tried to put me at a loss though, do you think I could claim he attempted to fraudulently get me to pay his council tax? I wonder if there's anything I could do about it.