Full house surveys Scotland-Damp

Mollie90132

Fed up of waiting for council to fix damp. Am thinking of employing someone to fix it but have had bad experience of damp proof surveyors see my reply under (Kenwood thread).

What type of survey would be best? Have been offered a Home Report but think that is not indepth enough

It is a 1920s solid wall construction looks like prefab but not prefab.
Problem is along a north facing wall.
Coal/wood central heating system
Thermal cladding has been added to outside walls.
Bottom of attic roof boards wet along north face side.
No condensation on window or mould on window
Have wooden flooring but damp is coming thru that and up thru bottom of furniture (which sits back 2in from wall)
Room is well heated, as it is a tiny semi bungalow
Room is occassional dinning room with cat flap in window which is used a few times per day ?ventilation and window is usually open a fraction. ie well ventilated and heated.

I accept that is possibly condensation but where is the moisture coming from. Don't cook much and never without extractor fan, kitchen and bathroom show no signs of damp. Don't dry clothes indoors etc

What type of survey should I ask for that will give me a full survey, by a suitably qualified person. That will get to the bottom of the problem so I can get it fixed.

Regards

HomeTest

You need to instruct an independant timber and damp surveyor(idealy csrt and cssw qualifed) expect to pay approx £175-£400 max.
Buy a 5 quid hygrometer from maplins and test the humidty levels, if your getting 65 plus then yes it could be a condensation problem.
failing that a pipe leak or defective drainage problem or simply rising damp.
some times coal is delivered wet and will therefore contribute moisture into the air
bungerlows often suffer condensation due to solid walls,size of the property, ps you dont have a color gas heater do you? these pump out water like a fire engine.
check the PCA website for independant surveyrs, these have no commeraicla interest and therefore no need to find work or sell.

kayl

If you suspect damp problems, most of the timber specialist firms will provide you with a detailed report and costing free - Richardson and Starling, Timberwise, Peter Cox etc.
If a surveyor does a survey and finds a dampness problem, he would in any event recommend that you get a timber specialist in

Mollie90132

My neighbour suffers same problem. It is interesting to see how different damp companies work/report on same type of property.

I had Balmoral Property Services damp survey who said condensation. I asked where the moisture was coming from but you can see my answers in the previous thread for the Kenwood problem. I wasn't impressed.

My neighbour (council property as well) had Richard and Starling and wall was stripped, I think a drain going in, and wall has been treated with something.

I am only a female but even I feel they are missing the obvious- the roofs are in a bad way and are damp inside. Am I right in thinking if it is wet at the top then it will work its way down and contribute/cause damp. Also, I can't get answer as to wether there is a damp proof course?

As it is a council house I am limited to what I can do. Mould has now damaged 3 units costing over £300 so am keen to get to bottom of this. I would be willing to pay for a survey but which one?

I already had the Damp survey initiated by the council which I thought really didn't go in depth ie move the furniture to inspect the wall, inspect the outer edges, corners of the roof space.

-Full structural?
-Timber Specialist?
-Another Damp Survey?

Mollie90132

The damp proof compay say they are CGS approved but going into that website. It looks just like another damp proof contractor?

Is csrt and cssw better?

iamcornholio

The problems you are having may well be condensation, if so, do a bit of googling on this as it is not as simple to eradicate as opening windows and turning up heating

If you have penetrating damp, then it would normally be obvious - tell-tale staining

However a property may well be susceptible to condensation solely due to it's design and construction, and if so it would not be your fault

I would avoid a damp-proof contractor as there may be some bias if they are selling a product too

You need to instruct a specialist damp surveyor, have a look here https://www.property-care.org

A building surveyor should be able to investigate and diagnose damp issues, but many take the easy way out and recommend a specialist damp survey. So if you do want to engage a building surveyor, then clearly state to them that you expect them to survey and report without further referral to any other specialist and to do all the testing and investigation necessary

A structural survey is the wrong type, so don't have one of these. Nor a Home Survey or Building Survey

Another option would be to engage an environmental health officer (EHO). If you have a council home then the council EHO wont get involved, so you would need to engage an independent EHO - see https://www.cieh.org

I am not experienced in Scottish law, but dampness could be deemed a Statutory Nuisance and you can force the landlord to remedy it. This may not apply to solely condensation dampness, but if there is another cause of any condensation then it would be actionable. Speak to and EHO about this, or a Solicitor

It would normally be up to your landlord to rectify the cause of structural dampness - so if your report recommends repairs then go back to the landlord and do not do them yourself

If it is found to be a condensation or lifestyle issue, then you will have to deal with that.

One final option for extreme condensation would be to fit a " positive pressure fan unit " - put those words into a search engine for more info

Mollie90132

'......need to instruct a specialist damp surveyor.....'


Nothing is simple! Needing to purchase a surveyor to carry out report.

Tried some of the companies on the list. One flatly refused stating they would not give their services to a tenant.

Another said they would need permission from the council. To be honest I think council would give permission but it would take way too long to get.


Unless anyone knows of a specialist damp surveyor with qualifications who can write a report for a tenant?

iamcornholio

A surveyor would not need permission to survey a tenanted property.

More likely they don't want to get involved with a tenant, which is just snobbery

mcgeo

Dampness issues in houses can be caused by more than one source, and one source may be more obvious than another. No one wants to spend money they don’t need to, but often the best way forward is to engage a professional expert.

Be careful of anyone carrying a moisture meter- here is an extract from one of our reports:

“Electrical moisture meters such as the Protimeter provide a convenient way of taking a number of readings in a short time with minimal damage. However care must be taken in the interpretation of the meaning of readings, and how the readings reflect moisture condition within different building materials.

It should be noted that electrical moisture meters are capable of providing a quantitative reading of moisture only on wood. Readings from any other surface such as brick masonry plaster or soil do not provide a true measure of % moisture content. On surfaces other than wood such as plaster, brickwork masonry or soil, the equipment manufacturers’ provide a “relative scale” which describes reading values as “wood moisture equivalent”. Wood moisture equivalent is the term used by the manufacturer as the amount of moisture wood would achieve if placed in an environment under those measured conditions.

Dataloggers provide a means of monitoring atmospheric temperature, dewpoint and moisture conditions continuously. This provides useful information about how temperature and relative humidity change on an hourly basis. By analysing the data and calculating vapour pressure, a comparison can be made between different locations at different temperatures. That comparison can be used to determine the source of condensation within a building.

Dewpoint temperature is the temperature at which condensation will occur. Condensation will form on any surface at or below dewpoint.

Relative humidity measures only how much moisture the air can hold, as a percentage of saturation, at a given temperature. For example air at 100 C can hold a maximum of 7.6g water vapour per kg of dry air. If air at a temperature of 100 C contains 3.8g of water per kg of dry air, the relative humidity is 50%. At 200C, however, air can hold a maximum of 15.3 g water vapour per kg of dry. If the level of moisture contained in the air remains the same (i.e. 3.8g) the relative humidity of the air falls to 25%.

In short, all else being equal, relative humidity of a particular location will decrease proportionately to a temperature increase. To express the moisture content in terms of relative humidity alone is misleading as the relative humidity will vary depending on temperature.

Vapour pressure provides a measure of atmospheric moisture that is independent of temperature. Vapour pressure can be calculated from relative humidity and temperature measurements. Vapour pressure comparison is the method described in the British Standard (BS5250) for condensation.

Vapour pressure is that proportion of normal air pressure that is made up of water in vapour form. This is typically around 1% of atmospheric pressure, but varies continuously. The moisture within the air within a building is made up of the moisture in the air outside plus that which is generated within the building by normal living activity, such as cooking washing and bathing.

Vapour pressure provides a useful means of comparing airborne humidity between different locations within a building, and of determining the direction of moisture movement. The direction of moisture migration is from areas of higher vapour pressure to lower until equilibrium is reached.

A way of determining the source of condensation within a property is to track vapour pressure migration because vapour pressure will generally migrate from the source location to other parts of a building.”

This type of diagnostic approach is essential if you want to find out what really is the problem..


Here is a typical investigation process



Investigative Procedures

Rising Dampness 1


Drill bullet holes (12mm) series of 5
from skirting upwards.

Collect and analyse drillings from plaster and
wall fabric. (Ref BRE Digest 245)

Analyse drillings for fabric type and contamination.
Analyse plaster for type and salt content.




Penetrating dampness 2


Drill bullet holes (as required) from areas affected
Collect and analyse drillings from plaster and
wall fabric.

Analyse drillings for fabric type and contamination.
Analyse plaster for type and salt content.




Wall-tie related water penetration 3


Drill bullet holes (as required) from areas affected
Collect and analyse drillings from plaster and
wall fabric.

Analyse drillings for fabric type.
Analyse plaster for type and salt content.

Inspect cavity with endoscope, examine
as far as is possible, the condition of ties, extent of
corrosion, and estimate contribution to dampness.




Cavity-blockage related water penetration 4


Drill bullet holes (as required) from areas affected
Collect and analyse drillings from plaster and
wall fabric.
Analyse drillings for fabric type and contamination.
Analyse plaster for type and salt content.

Inspect cavity with endoscope.



Condensation or Indoor climate related dampness 5


Place datalogger within property to collect hourly
hygrometric data over a two or three week period.

This data will be compared with external data, collected
at the same time, and analysed, to enable
the indoor climate conditions to be categorised
in accordance with the British Standard BS5250.



see mcgill consultancy website

iamcornholio

mcgeo wrote: »

Here is a typical investigation process

Drill bullet holes

<etc>

There is absolutely no need for invasive testing for damp diagnosis

Nor a data logger

Mollie90132

Can you say the reason why?

regards
Molli90132