Oyster fares - cheaper if I touch in/out of one station and walk to a nearby one

JUAN8888

If I go directly to the tube station, the single Oyster fare to my destination is £4.40. But I noticed that if I first go into a nearby Overground station then leave straight away, and walk on to the tube station (just a few minutes down the road), the same journey home is only charged at £2.60.

I only found this because I missed my train at the Overground station and didn't want to wait for the next one so decided to use the tube station instead which is close by.

It just seems a bit weird walking in, and then turning around and leaving the Overground station - is there anything wrong in doing this to get the cheaper fare?

dzug1

Did you both touch in and out at the Overground station and then in at the tube station and at the end of your journey?

Sounds very odd - it's either a mistake or there is a wrong assumption being made about your route.

JUAN8888

dzug1 wrote: »

Did you both touch in and out at the Overground station and then in at the tube station and at the end of your journey?

Sounds very odd - it's either a mistake or there is a wrong assumption being made about your route.

Defintely touch in/out at all stages (have to to open the barriers!). It is definitely odd but I've checked it on my Oyster journey history and I can see the breakdown of the journeys. Same journey, same time of day - if I go directly to the tube station, it's £4.40 - if I go in and come out of the Overground station and then check into the tube station, £2.60.

I just wondered if this was in contravention of any Oyster regulations - there's usually someone at the barriers when I go into the Overground station and I'm sure it must look odd to go in and turn around and come straight back out!

dacouch

Which stations is it

wealdroam

dacouch wrote: »

Which stations is it

Might be a good idea not to answer that on an open forum.
You may well find the 'error', if there is one, swiftly fixed.

Of course, without that answer it is more difficult to understand.

Jeff_Bridges_hair

wealdroam wrote: »

Might be a good idea not to answer that on an open forum.
You may well find the 'error', if there is one, swiftly fixed.

Of course, without that answer it is more difficult to understand.

Cant be hard to find out - there's not many overgrounds near to tube stations onthe network.

It is a quandry though as to why it happens as you get a set amount of time from when you first touch in to touch out again without a charge IIRC...

bram01

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

Cant be hard to find out - there's not many overgrounds near to tube stations onthe network.

It is a quandry though as to why it happens as you get a set amount of time from when you first touch in to touch out again without a charge IIRC...

It's definitely an interesting one. £4.40 is the peak TfL fare for zones 1-5 while £2.60 is the peak TfL fare for zones 2-5. I have an idea what it might be to do with, but I'd need the stations to be sure. Have you tried asking the guy at https://www.oyster-rail.org.uk?

The_Urbanite

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

Cant be hard to find out - there's not many overgrounds near to tube stations onthe network.

It is a quandry though as to why it happens as you get a set amount of time from when you first touch in to touch out again without a charge IIRC...

It's not very hard to figure out at all, although I will respect the OP's wish not to name the stations.

What I will say is that if I have figured it out correctly, it's exploiting a programming weakness to evade paying for use of Zone 1. Do be aware that any suspicious activity on Oyster does flag up and may well be investigated, resulting in a fine and potential criminal record being issued.

If you don't believe me, check out Episode 2 of The Tube, if it's still on iPlayer. It featured someone who was using a Zone 2-3 or any other Travelcard including at least Zones 2 and 3, but not Zone 1. They were being "clever" using it on the barriers to evade paying for Zone 1. The programme showed how it flagged up on the revenue team's computers, they traced the pattern of usage and used CCTV to identify the culprit, before laying in wait for the the person at their destination station. The person had no excuse and like the OP, asked if they were doing a bad thing. Intentional fare evasion is contrary to Section 5.3.a and 5.3.b of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 and if convicted, will result in a recordable criminal conviction.

TfL can be harsh but by the same token, are incredibly fair. They're not going to chase you down if you've done it mistakenly. But if you're doing it deliberately then it might be a different story, as touching in at a station then travelling from a different one on a regular basis is not normal behaviour, there'll be a specific reason for it.

Given it was shown on TV, I'll leave it up to you all to decide whether it's worth saving the £3.00 a day!

johnfarquhar74

The_Urbanite wrote: »

If you don't believe me, check out Episode 2 of The Tube, if it's still on iPlayer. It featured someone who was using a Zone 2-3 or any other Travelcard including at least Zones 2 and 3, but not Zone 1. They were being "clever" using it on the barriers to evade paying for Zone 1. The programme showed how it flagged up on the revenue team's computers, they traced the pattern of usage and used CCTV to identify the culprit, before laying in wait for the the person at their destination station.

I don't think you're comparing like for like here. The 'fraud' on the BBC program was about a guy that touched in but immediately touched out on the adjacent gate as he walked through. That particular person entered the station and used the tube. The OP above is touching in to an overground station then leaving whilst touching out, no service is being used.

If I'm mistaken about the example then I humbly apologise and grovel for your forgivness

NBLondon

bram01 wrote: »

It's definitely an interesting one. £4.40 is the peak TfL fare for zones 1-5 while £2.60 is the peak TfL fare for zones 2-5. I have an idea what it might be to do with, but I'd need the stations to be sure. Have you tried asking the guy at www.oyster-rail.org.uk?

Could it be that the stations in question are on the Zone 1 to 2 border and that's the difference - straight to the Tube is treated as Zone 1 start but Overground to Tube is treated as Zone 2 start, crossing Zone 1 but not alighting there? Which as The Urbanite says; might flag up as an unusual pattern if done regularly. Whether it's considered fraud or the equivalent of split ticketing - I'll be interested to hear.

JUAN8888

I don't think it'd be a good idea to identify the stations but it's not something I'll be doing regularly in any case having read the comments here. If I do miss the Overground train then I'll go for the tube, but I don't think I'm comfortable walking in and then out just for the sake of saving a couple of £'s

I did google the stations and the they're recognised as "Out of Station Interchanges" apparently, but I don't know if that has any impact on this scenario of touching in and then straight out.