Pre-school workers get paid peanuts...!!!

exil

Apparently Aldi pay £7.40 to £8.70 per hour - but they expect their pound of flesh in return (I think they have to memorise all the prices!)

To see what people earn, look at this :-

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_labour/ASHE_2006/2006_occ4.pdf

Median earnings range from £5.05 for bar staff to £46.45 for directories of big companies. According to this the average sales assistant gets £5.75

Savvy_Sue

Spendless wrote: »

Savvy Sue- I once didn't get SSP in a part-time job because I didn't earn enough. I rang the DWP and the rules were you had to earn more than the ...... the phrase wassomething like the lower earnings rate/ limit more than the lower something or other, someone say it and I'll confirm it was that 'phrase'.

I think it would be the Lower Earnings Limit - that's the rate above which you are liable to pay National Insurance, and below which you aren't ... Which does make sense because your SSP comes out of the NI pot.

Kelinik

Mics_chick wrote: »

I've recently become a committee member of my dd's pre-school and I went to my 2nd meeting last week where a pay rise was discussed for the staff. It turned out to be a miserly 15p per hour!!!

I also learned some other shocking facts as well...

The supervisor said that she earned £7.40 per hour. To which I exclaimed (without engaging brain first ) "That's the same as a shop assistant in any supermarket coz they get £7.45"
All of the staff members said "Oh thanks very much for that!!" in a very sarky way (after which I tried to disappear into the nearest corner ) So I sat there quietly thinking abou it when I realised that the supervisor earns £1 per hour more than the other staff members so they only get £6.40 per hour...
I also found out that they only get paid for 45 weeks a year so the other 7 weeks they don't get paid at all!!!!! and they don't get paid sick pay coz they have to pay for a replacement and they can't afford to pay for them both!!!!
This is absolutely ridiculous...can anyone help on how to possibly improve this for them???

BusyLizzie wrote: »

I'm also on the committee of our local pre-school (in Oxfordshire). We have two supervisors who are paid £9.50/hour (just raised from £8.50/hour) and the other staff range between £6.25 and £8.00/hour.

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

As an employer, you HAVE to pay Statutory Sick Pay (some of which you MAY be able to claim back), and you HAVE to give paid leave.

I didn't pick this up from your original post, but just because your staff only work for 45 weeks of the year doesn't mean they are not entitled to ANY holiday pay. Employers HAVE to give 20 days paid leave each year, obviously it's pro rata for part-timers or people who don't work all through the year, and it can include bank holidays. It's going up to 24 days this October, and 28 the year after.

The ACAS website will advise how to work it out for people who don't work all through the year.

But when I was doing Payroll for an out of school club where we had a lot of staff working either school holidays or term-time but not both, I calculated everybody's entitlement to paid leave by the hour: IIRC once you'd worked 12 hours, you were entitled to an hour's holiday pay. I tended to just add it on to their last wages: so if someone worked just the Easter term I'd pay what they had earned at the start of the Easter holidays.

You can require them to take their paid holiday when you don't want them working, but you can't not give them ANY pro rata holiday pay!

We don't get anywhere near that much at work, we're on 10p above minimum wage. There is also no sick or holiday pay.

trigger2

I work for a preschool playgroup & get £5.70 per hour, & have to be qualified. I know playground assistants at the local primary school get between £6.20 - £6.74 per hour, & don't have to be qualified.

Rachie_B

trigger2 wrote: »

I work for a preschool playgroup & get £5.70 per hour, & have to be qualified. I know playground assistants at the local primary school get between £6.20 - £6.74 per hour, & don't have to be qualified.

I was on £5.25 p/h as Playgroup assistant supervisor back in 2001 ! wasnt qualified,but working towards level 3

the supervisor wasn't on much more

Savvy_Sue

Kelinik wrote: »

We don't get anywhere near that much at work, we're on 10p above minimum wage. There is also no sick or holiday pay.

Your employer is in breach of the law. Although there is no entitlement to PAID sick leave, SSP MUST be paid if you're entitled to it.

And as I have said before, ALL employees are entitled to at least four weeks paid holiday, even if they don't work all year, even if they only work a few hours a week, even if they work irregular hours, even if their employer has to pay someone else to cover for their holidays and says they can't afford to do so. It is not an optional extra.

It may be pro rata to a full-timer, so if a full-timer does 40 hours and you do 4, they're entitled to 20 days paid leave (if they work 5 days per week, it would be 24 days if they worked 6 days per week), and you are entitled to 2 days paid leave.

You can get chapter and verse on how to work out holiday pay for irregular hours from the ACAS site and other places too.

Yorkshire-Lady_3

I'm a childminder, and because I'm self employed, I don't get the minimum wage. I charge £3.50 an hour, and that includes all food, trips, toddlers, craft supplies etc. Parents only have to bring nappies and wipes.

I am limited to the number of children that I care for, and I choose not to look after over 5's, so I never have more than 3 littlies at one time. One is full time, and 2 are part time. As I said, though, this is MY choice, as I'd rather offer good quality care to few, tham poor quality care to many.

Sally xx

Kelinik

Maybe the law is different for pre-school because it's commitee run and also a registered charity? Technically because I'm on the commitee and work p/t in the pre-school I employ myself lol!

Yorshire-lady I have a friend who is a childminder so understand what it's like. Her rate is the same as yours and as she's only had one kiddy this week she's spent most of her earnings on picnic food and sand for the sandpit!

fsdss

i cant believe that whilst trawing through the jobs section of the NCH last night, a secretary gets paid more than a qualified childcare worker!!. i think i even saw a family support worker on less.

Savvy_Sue

Kelinik wrote: »

Maybe the law is different for pre-school because it's commitee run and also a registered charity? Technically because I'm on the commitee and work p/t in the pre-school I employ myself lol!

Not as far as I know - I've helped set up and run two out of school clubs, both were committee run and although neither were registered charities I work for a charity and the law is NOT different!

And although you say you employ yourself, your contract is with the legal entity which is the Playgroup. You say you're on the committee and it's a charity? If that makes you a Trustee of the Charity, then you (with your fellow trustees) are responsible for the actions of the charity. And nothing you've said so far indicates that the charity is acting legally in not giving you paid holiday ...

When we set up the first Club, there was NO legal entitlement to paid holiday. As we were only running during term-time, that's all people were paid for. As they didn't earn enough to reach the level at which SSP had to be paid, we didn't pay that either. You worked: you were paid. You didn't work: you weren't paid.

By the time I was insane enough to set up the second Club, the law had changed. And we were running through school holidays. And EVERYONE was entitled to paid holidays, even the people who only came in at lunchtime during school holidays to allow the full-timers to take a break (also a legal requirement by then).

I had a few people who worked all through the year, but most of my staff were students: they either lived or studied here but weren't available all year through. I kept a spreadsheet: for every 12 hours they worked, I awarded them an hour's holiday pay. If they worked through the holidays, I added that holiday pay to their last payslip and vice versa.

This may be a shock to the committee, but they are not outside the law. No, I don't know how they suddenly find the extra money they need, but would they rather start thinking about it voluntarily or when someone takes them to court? I'm not suggesting you would want to do this - in fact as a trustee I'm not sure you could, but you are in a strong position for education them about the law! And if they are in breach of the law, then being taken to court is a distinct possibility.

If they've had different LEGAL advice about why the law doesn't apply I'd be interested to hear it ... But that's LEGAL advice, not someone saying "Well, we're not going to be able to afford that and we never have before so why should we start now?"

Is there, in your area, a kind of support group for childcare organisations who could advise them? Or a Voluntary Services Council?

One good source of information for voluntary groups who employ staff (which being run by a committee makes you) is Sandy Adirondack's Legal Update service. As well as a comprehensive website, she sends out regular emails explaining what any new legislation means in simple language. That's my main source of information, and also of cautionary tales ...

Kelinik wrote: »

Yorshire-lady I have a friend who is a childminder so understand what it's like. Her rate is the same as yours and as she's only had one kiddy this week she's spent most of her earnings on picnic food and sand for the sandpit!

If you're self-employed, you CAN charge what you like, work the hours you like, pay yourself whatever hourly rate you like. But if you're working in a playgroup, you are NOT self-employed!

As for the general rates of pay and comparing with different occupations: employers will pay what they have to in order to get the staff they need. If there's a ready supply of staff prepared to dedicate themselves to working with children at low rates of pay, some employers will pay the minimum and accept high turnover. But if they pay you more, they have to increase what they charge parents. While some parents could easily afford this, in some areas very few could, and even the parents who COULD afford it might choose not to do so.

There is no simple solution to this one!