Pre-school workers get paid peanuts...!!!

Wicked_witch

I had to reply to this- I was a playworker at a pre-school for 4 years and a manager for one. I left to go to university because I was so tired of doing the job of a qualified Nursery School Teacher without getting any of the money or respect. If pre-school's want ofsted registration and the attendant funding they have to offer foundation stage teaching and planning, even though they are only entitled to funding for A-level standard qualifications for staff (my childcare qualification is equal to 3 A levels). As you mention, they are also only entitled to 4 weeks holiday pay, so for a certain number of weeks that means no pay at all. At the time i left my manager's job- July '05- we were not entitled to any sick pay at all either due to the short hours officially worked. And unfortunately, unlike with a supermarket or other similarly paid work, you have no option to do overtime if you need some extra cash.

I could get on my soapbox about other issues, like hours of unpaid paperwork each day, being treated like a free childminding service and the frighteningly large number of children who have to be taught basic manners from scratch, but that is another thread (or possibly book)! But it is definitely the wages that have eventually forced me out of a job I loved :-(

Ironically, financial problems are now forcing me out of uni a year before completion, but at least I will have a Diploma in Higher Education which will count for something. I probably won't be working with children any more though, even though my semi-degree is in Childhood Studies. I honestly can't afford to.

Savvy_Sue

Wicked_witch wrote: »

If pre-school's want ofsted registration and the attendant funding

didn't think there was a choice! Who will use a facility WITHOUT Ofsted registration?

Wicked_witch wrote: »

At the time i left my manager's job- July '05- we were not entitled to any sick pay at all either due to the short hours officially worked.

I was not aware that the number of hours worked had anything to do with your entitlement to sick pay! I know I had to give Statutory Sick Pay to someone who was working 3 hours a day, who'd not been with us a month ... AND pay someone else to do her job!

Balancing the books for childcare is a fine art. Obviously you want to pay your staff fairly and well, naturally you will comply with the law, BUT for every pay rise you offer, costs go up. You can't just up the fees because you think the staff are worth more: good staff are worth their weight in gold, but they've only got jobs because parents are prepared to pay what you're charging.

OP, you asked about pre-schools sponsored by local businesses. You'd have to ask "What's in it for them?" You might find that you could run a couple of fund-raising events each year and get some sponsorship in for them, but you need to think how you 'pitch' things. Parents might be happy to support events to raise money for a trip for the children, or to buy new equipment, but - IME - they tend to think that the extortionate fees you're charging (OK, they're not extortionate but sometimes parents perceive them that way!) ought to cover rent, heat, light and staff salaries: the basics.

Like I said, it's a fine art ...

Rachie_B

Wicked_witch wrote: »

I could get on my soapbox about other issues, like hours of unpaid paperwork each day, being treated like a free childminding service and the frighteningly large number of children who have to be taught basic manners from scratch, but that is another thread (or possibly book)! But it is definitely the wages that have eventually forced me out of a job I loved :-(Ironically, financial problems are now forcing me out of uni a year before completion, but at least I will have a Diploma in Higher Education which will count for something. I probably won't be working with children any more though, even though my semi-degree is in Childhood Studies. I honestly can't afford to.

thats sad,what will you do for work ?

you def have to be in it for the love of the job not the money !
For me apart from doing a job I loved ( apart from the paperwork grrr) it was the flexibility of it which appealed.
I was able to drop my son to school work 9 -3pm then pick him up again,so no need for out of school care.

Also in the holidays / inset days i was able to take him to the playgroup with me

I am now better paid as I am a nanny,I wouldnt go back to pre school / day nursery work I dont think. Unless I was the boss
maybe when I win the lottery :rolleyes:

Wicked_witch

I was not aware that the number of hours worked had anything to do with your entitlement to sick pay! I know I had to give Statutory Sick Pay to someone who was working 3 hours a day, who'd not been with us a month ... AND pay someone else to do her job!

How long ago was that? I think the rules have changed since I left. Although i think staff should definitely get sick pay, I do agree it's off to have to pay it to someone so soon- I'd expect there to be a six month qualifying period at least. As far as raising fees goes, isn't the government clamping down on pre-schools adding any top up fees at all? The manager who took over from me bought the place (I was employed by a committee) and everyone was shocked at her top-up fees and wondering how she would cope if this happened.

I can see I'll have to read up on the new rules, it's changed a lot in less than 2 years.

Rachie, cheers :-) I don't know what I'm going to work as atm, especially as I am also my husband's carer, so will only be able to go part time. I will probably end up as a classroom assistant/special needs mentor at a secondary school, as my 'degree' is relevant for that, but I do miss my little ones!

Savvy_Sue

Wicked_witch wrote: »

How long ago was that? I think the rules have changed since I left. Although i think staff should definitely get sick pay, I do agree it's off to have to pay it to someone so soon- I'd expect there to be a six month qualifying period at least.

It must be 4-5 years ago now. Of course nothing is due for the first three days of any sick period, and it isn't the employee's fault if they're sick right at the start of a new job, but it is VERY hard to cope with as an employer. Your income is dependent on the number of children attending, you can't just up that because of staff:child ratios, you can't just up fees on a whim (well you can but you won't stay in business!), and yet your staff costs can escalate without warning if someone is sick.

Wicked_witch

I wonder if there are different rules where I live (SE London) or something? I was never entitled to sick pay, even when i was off due to wrenching my back carrying tables around and nor was anyone else I knew. This was in a pre-school run as a private business and later one run as a charity. Or did you just pay it because it was the fair thing to do? I'm confused!

Savvy_Sue

Wicked_witch wrote: »

I wonder if there are different rules where I live (SE London) or something? I was never entitled to sick pay, even when i was off due to wrenching my back carrying tables around and nor was anyone else I knew. This was in a pre-school run as a private business and later one run as a charity. Or did you just pay it because it was the fair thing to do? I'm confused!

No, I paid it because it is the legal requirement of all employers to pay Statutory Sick Pay if the employee is entitled to it. Trust me, if I could have avoided it, I would!

If you look on the HMRC website you can find the current regulations. But TBH I don't think they've changed that much in the last few years!

Wicked_witch

Looking briefly at that, it looks like I wasn't earning enough per week (it says £84 plus- i wish!). I don't know whether i could have claimed it from elsewhere, but as i wasn't earning enough to pay tax i don't know if the government would have paid me either. I guess it's a bit late to ask now! But that is an extremely useful link for the future, thank you!

Savvy_Sue

Wicked_witch wrote: »

Looking briefly at that, it looks like I wasn't earning enough per week (it says £84 plus- i wish!). I don't know whether i could have claimed it from elsewhere, but as i wasn't earning enough to pay tax i don't know if the government would have paid me either. I guess it's a bit late to ask now! But that is an extremely useful link for the future, thank you!

Of course it might have been a little less than £84 per week back then, these limits do tend to go up rather than down! Which does lead to the invidious position where the lowest paid staff doing 15 hours per week would NOT be entitled to SSP, whereas the supervisor might ...

For future reference, if the employer does not think you are entitled to SSP, then they must tell you why and give you information about what you can claim instead.

Spendless

Savvy Sue- I once didn't get SSP in a part-time job because I didn't earn enough. I rang the DWP and the rules were you had to earn more than the ...... the phrase wassomething like the lower earnings rate/ limit more than the lower something or other, someone say it and I'll confirm it was that 'phrase'.

This was 2001 and IIRC I was earning 4.24 an hour for 15 hours per week so around £65, I know at the time I was only just below and if I'd had a 20 hour contract I'd have got it.