School appeals - help offered

TeamLowe

yes that would be true but I'm not an expert on admissions so couldn't say for 100% certain, I only pick up what I hear in appeals, but I can't think of a reason why a school would take a child over its Published Admission Number unless the child was a permitted exception.

So I'd put very good money on any class of 31 including one child that is a permitted exception and indeed when it's questioned in our appeals (as it always is) that's always the answer given by the admissions authority, sometimes with confirmation that they were the result of successful appeals or very exceptionally that the child was initially refused a place in error but otherwise they won't state the category for confidentiality reasons

Also, again just something I've picked up through appeals so not sure of the exact details, but to be defined as a Class Teacher you have to have QTS status *and* be employed by the school as such - it's come up a couple of times in appeals with people arguing that there's an extra class teacher as there's teaching assistants who have QTS

poet123

My point was that if the class was already at 31 from. say the result of an earlier appeal, and as such another teacher had to be employed then the OP could use that route to bolster her case.

I am a school governor and have sat on a few appeals panels for the LEA (though not recently) and the 31st child would always trigger another teacher to adhere to the regs. That was why your response interested me.

So, in essence the specifics of the wording of the code may have changed in the updated version but the meaning and application of it remain.

TeamLowe

yes, they seem to have taken the 'detriment' away from appeals being granted without making it any less difficult for Panels to grant them.

then again ime as the pupil used to be a permitted exception for a year before the qualifying measures would be taken, the LA would say in appeals that the schools would never have the intention of hiring an extra teacher and hope that the numbers would naturally fall back down to 30

emmmski

peachyprice wrote: »

emmmski, have you considered taking the yr3 place and home schooling the year 1 child until a place becomes available? If you're at the top of the list it may not be for too long. Home schooling yr1 should be relatively easy and seems the simplest option.

Thank you but I wouldn't even consider home schooling.As much asI may like to, I couldn't offer my dd an equal education to what she gets at school, I'm no teacher, think they do an excellent job in difficult circumstances, and I wouldn't be doing my dd justice. I'm not against home schooling if the parent is up to the job. I work pretty much full time and have a baby too so not ideal.

monim1

First of all thanks for your help. For high school admission is it important to submit yearly income of parents?

Savvy_Sue

monim1 wrote: »

First of all thanks for your help. For high school admission is it important to submit yearly income of parents?

Why would you need to do this? What are you trying to establish? How does it affect your grounds of appeal? Have you checked you have allowable grounds for appeal?

Remember that not liking the school you've been offered is NOT grounds for appeal. Thinking that the school you've been offered is full of families whose income is either much higher or much lower than your own is NOT grounds for appeal.

emmmski

Well the appeal forms have arrived for the yr 1 appeal. The La has kindly quoted its stats that in the last 5 years no-one has won an infant class size appeal!
Any advice on what to/not to write gratefully received!

Emmmski :cool:

poet123

Did you find out why the class was already over the prescribed number? And whether there is an extra teacher already in place?

emmmski

Hi,

I've spoken to the School. Explained my situation and asked whether the increase from 30 to 31 in year 1 had resulted in an extra teacher being employed. The head wasn't in and the lady I spoke to said she was not sure if she could disclose this kind of information to me? She's took my details but yet to have a call back.
I can't see an obvious data protection issue with the disclosure of this information? It's quite important to my appeal too, if I have understood correctly the panel need to decide whether allowing my dd into the class would be detrimental to the school as a whole? Therefore if extra resources were hired as a result of the previous admission taking the numbers over 30, it would potentially have less of a detrimental affect now to increase from 31 to 32?
Will the fact that they only offered us a school 7 miles away on our arrival to the area carry any weight in my appeal ?

Thank you

TeamLowe

emmmski wrote: »

Hi,

I've spoken to the School. Explained my situation and asked whether the increase from 30 to 31 in year 1 had resulted in an extra teacher being employed. The head wasn't in and the lady I spoke to said she was not sure if she could disclose this kind of information to me? She's took my details but yet to have a call back.
I can't see an obvious data protection issue with the disclosure of this information? It's quite important to my appeal too, if I have understood correctly the panel need to decide whether allowing my dd into the class would be detrimental to the school as a whole? Therefore if extra resources were hired as a result of the previous admission taking the numbers over 30, it would potentially have less of a detrimental affect now to increase from 31 to 32?

The Panel in an Infant Class Size Prejudice appeal do not make any decision regarding whether the admittance of a further child would have a detrimental impact on the school (that's what happens at a 2 stage appeal but they're for when ICSP is not argued)

what they do decide on is whether to admit a further pupil would be in breach of the infant class size regulations - ie would it mean that pupils would need to be taught in classes of more than 30. when you get the school case, which you have a right to and will be sent to you by the clerk, look at how many teachers there are - if there is less than one for every 30 pupils then infant class size can not be proven and that's an automatic grant of your appeal.

So if it's a 30 pupil per year intake and they have 3 Class Teachers for their 3 infant classes, that proves infant class size prejudice but if it's a 30 pupil per year intake and they have 4 Class Teachers for their 3 infant classes, there's no infant class size prejudice and the appeal is granted.

Note i'm careful to use the words Class Teacher - it makes no difference how many teaching assistants with Qualified Teacher Status they might have, only a teacher designated as a Class Teacher can have responsibility for a class

Will the fact that they only offered us a school 7 miles away on our arrival to the area carry any weight in my appeal?

It depends on the opinion of the Panel on the day whether that means that your application was maladministered and that directly resulted in your child not being given a place when they should have been.

You could argue that the Admissions Authority should have used their discretion under 3.16 of the code to get you a place at a school closer to your home address and therefore your application was maladministered BUT the Admissions Authority could argue that that did not lead to the wrongful denial of a place as no place was available anyway and the school they would have offered would have been x because it has classes of less than 30

I'd definitely make that my main argument though- unfortunately the rest of the case does not point to unreasonableness to me as that's an incredibly high bar to overcome