School appeals - help offered

balletshoes

Hope someone can help me with this one (although its probably a bit how-long-is-a-piece-of-string).

My DD's friend hasn't got a place at either of the first 2 secondary schools she has applied for. I think I know why, but I'm trying to figure out how realistic it will be that she'll be able to appeal to get her 2nd choice school.

heres the scenario -

first choice school on her list is out of catchment, and she doesn't qualify under sibling rule as her oldest sibling, who attends this school, will be 6th form when she starts secondary school in September. this school is regularly oversubscribed.

2nd choice school, she is in the catchment and has a sibling who will still be in secondary education there when she starts school in September. This school has allocated all its first round places, and there are 30 children on the waiting list after the allocation exercise took place (I'm assuming she will be on this waiting list as this school was higher on her list than the one she's been given a place at).

so, my question is - when looking at the waiting list, do the schools look at first choice applications over 2nd choice? Or do they look at higher criteria first, over first choice applications? As if its the latter, she'll be high on the waiting list (sibling then catchment - both of these are qualifying criteria for her 2nd choice school, and if she'd put this school as her first choice she'd be going there, no question).

Savvy_Sue

balletshoes wrote: »

so, my question is - when looking at the waiting list, do the schools look at first choice applications over 2nd choice? Or do they look at higher criteria first, over first choice applications? As if its the latter, she'll be high on the waiting list (sibling then catchment - both of these are qualifying criteria for her 2nd choice school, and if she'd put this school as her first choice she'd be going there, no question).

To be sure of the answer, I think you'd need to ask the school or local authority.

susancs

balletshoes wrote: »

Hope someone can help me with this one (although its probably a bit how-long-is-a-piece-of-string).

My DD's friend hasn't got a place at either of the first 2 secondary schools she has applied for. I think I know why, but I'm trying to figure out how realistic it will be that she'll be able to appeal to get her 2nd choice school.

heres the scenario -

first choice school on her list is out of catchment, and she doesn't qualify under sibling rule as her oldest sibling, who attends this school, will be 6th form when she starts secondary school in September. this school is regularly oversubscribed.

2nd choice school, she is in the catchment and has a sibling who will still be in secondary education there when she starts school in September. This school has allocated all its first round places, and there are 30 children on the waiting list after the allocation exercise took place (I'm assuming she will be on this waiting list as this school was higher on her list than the one she's been given a place at).

so, my question is - when looking at the waiting list, do the schools look at first choice applications over 2nd choice? Or do they look at higher criteria first, over first choice applications? As if its the latter, she'll be high on the waiting list (sibling then catchment - both of these are qualifying criteria for her 2nd choice school, and if she'd put this school as her first choice she'd be going there, no question).

My understanding is that this system is used as copied and pasted below:



equal preference system' is used to allocate school places. This means that:

• All preferences you have stated are initially looked at indivdually under the individual schools admissions policy, regardless of the order in which you have ranked the school
• The order you have ranked your preferences becomes important when it is possible to allocate a place for your child at more than one of your preferred schools. In this instance you will be offered a place at the available school you have ranked the highest
• It is possible that applicant (A) who ranked a school as a lower preference, could be allocated a place ahead of the applicants who ranked the same school as a preference, if s/he (A) meets one of the higher oversubscription criteria

If your DDs friend had qualified for the second school under their admissions criteria over others, she should been offered that regardless of her preference ranking. It may be that there were a lot of other children with siblings who were closer to the school or looked after children sometimes are a higher criteria than siblings and if a faith school being a member of a particualar church or being in a faith primary school, may give a higher criteria then siblings, specialist subject places may also play a part eg. aptitide for music, sports etc.

Waiting list places will not take into place ranking of preferences but will again look at admissions criteria and how each child meets each of these individually and any places will be allocated according to these.

balletshoes

susancs wrote: »

My understanding is that this system is used as copied and pasted below:



equal preference system' is used to allocate school places. This means that:

• All preferences you have stated are initially looked at indivdually under the individual schools admissions policy, regardless of the order in which you have ranked the school
• The order you have ranked your preferences becomes important when it is possible to allocate a place for your child at more than one of your preferred schools. In this instance you will be offered a place at the available school you have ranked the highest
• It is possible that applicant (A) who ranked a school as a lower preference, could be allocated a place ahead of the applicants who ranked the same school as a preference, if s/he (A) meets one of the higher oversubscription criteria

If your DDs friend had qualified for the second school under their admissions criteria over others, she should been offered that regardless of her preference ranking. It may be that there were a lot of other children with siblings who were closer to the school or looked after children sometimes are a higher criteria than siblings and if a faith school being a member of a particualar church or being in a faith primary school, may give a higher criteria then siblings, specialist subject places may also play a part eg. aptitide for music, sports etc.

Waiting list places will not take into place ranking of preferences but will again look at admissions criteria and how each child meets each of these individually and any places will be allocated according to these.

see thats why I'm getting confused - because my DD doesn't qualify under any of the criteria for her friend's second choice school, but she was offered a place because we put that same school as our first choice school.

so, assuming that this child is on the waiting list for the second choice school, is that article saying that 1st or 2nd choice doesn't count when they look at who is in which order on the waiting list? if so, thats good for my DD's friend as she'll be quite high up on the list, having sibling (2nd highest criteria for this school after LA care).

JC9297

Unless your LA does take into account order of choices, which I think is unusual and IMO unfair, the other girl should have got a place at the school ahead of your daughter if she meets a higher priority criteria.
Therefore her parents can appeal on the grounds that the admissions criteria was incorrectly applied.

FBaby

I think in most LAs, preference is first consideration when applying for a place. For most though (but maybe not all), preference becomes irrelevant when it comes to the waiting list.

Your friend does need to speak with the LA directly. Firstly because I don't think she will be put on the waiting list automatically, she will need to request to be so. The LA should be able to tell her when she stands on the waiting list.

balletshoes

thanks everyone, i really think this LEA (Nottingham city) must count preference in some way, because there are several children like my DD who have been offered a place at the school where they are not in the catchment and have no other qualifying criteria, but where they put this school as first choice.

I will get my friend to make sure she's on the waiting list and tell her to contact the school itself for further advice.

peachyprice

Balletshoes, is it a foundation or academy who do their own admissions, only co-ordinating through the LEA? This is whay my children's school does and if you don't put them as your first choice you don't get a look in.

balletshoes

yes it is an academy - but the admissions process does appear to be done solely through the LEA (ie there are no extra forms etc needed for the admission process, it all goes on the one LEA form with all your other choices, in order of preference).

susancs

balletshoes wrote: »

thanks everyone, i really think this LEA (Nottingham city) must count preference in some way, because there are several children like my DD who have been offered a place at the school where they are not in the catchment and have no other qualifying criteria, but where they put this school as first choice.

I will get my friend to make sure she's on the waiting list and tell her to contact the school itself for further advice.

Nottinghamcity do not consider initially how the applicant has ranked the schools places as their guidance states: "All 4 preferences will be treated equally. The ranked order is used only when a place could be offered at more than one of the schools you have named" Your child's friend has good grounds for appeal if s/he has met more criteria than other children but has not been offered a place. http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=20710&p=0