School appeals - help offered

bonty44

In response to Yusra1973:
There should be a 'Clerk to the Appeal' assigned to your case, who should be able to answer all questions.
1 You should have been informed whether it was important to submit your appeal before the hearing. Certainly in our case we had to; and when we requested extra information on the Saturday, we were refused that request as it didn't give enough time to all parties involved to consider it before the appeal (which was on the Tuesday)
2 Yes, the net capacity should be provided and the school should be able to provide this to you.
Can I ask why you are appealing please? I am presuming this is a secondary school place? I've been through an appeal but against a voluntary aided school, so no LEA rep ... PM me if you have any questions, although as you are appealing against the LEA there may well be a different format, etc.

mygirlsnan

My grandaughter has been refused her secondary school of choice on the grounds that she lives too far away from the school,the primary school her and her sister attend is right near the secondary school she was not too far away when she was accepted there, could this be used in an appeal, we do have other grounds for appeal but need to use everything we can, HELP! Thanks

bonty44

susanbevan wrote: »

Good luck Susan Bevan
PS we moved last year school over subscribed, so still in the same position Appealing :eek:

Hi - I tried to pm you but it won't let me, the message I keep getting is 'has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her;

So can you change your settings please and then I can pm you!!!

bonty44

Does anybody want my Ben Rooney 'How to win your School Appeal' book?

It's been well read, is annotated and I've highlighted a load of sections, but I thought I'd offer it here before charity shopping it.

PM me please!

susanbevan

Tried changing my setting so hope you can now pm me
The school have purchased a package from the LEA and have a representative to put their case to the panel.

sal-ad_daze

Hi guys,
Sorry I've not been around for a while, been sitting on appeals panels here in my LA!
I'll read through your posts again and hopefully be able to give some advice in a little while!
S x

sal-ad_daze

Tracymae wrote: »

Hi there Sal,
Hi Tracy, I'm answering in your post as it's easier to do this way!
We live in Scotland so I guess although the rules may be slightly different, the appeals process and panels should work the same way?
The panels may work the same way, but the law guiding them may well be different.
We have been told our daughter can't get into our local school on the basis the council "would have to employ an extra teacher".
Having checked with the head mistress of the school, the class we want our daughter to join (P1 class) has 25 pupils accepted already. In my initial appeal letter I stated I knew of a family who unfortunately couldn't take up their place (leaving a space free), I contact the school and informed the head of this and she confirmed with the parents this was indeed the case. It seems though that she might have given that place now to someone else :rolleyes:
Does the HT alloctate the places, or the church, or the LA; if the LA do they operate a waiting list? In Community schools it's the LA who will re-allocate according to a Waiting list they have (position on the waiting list is determined by the admissions code. Allocation by the school/church may be different I haven't experience of faith schools so can't help there.)

Anyway thats neither here nor there really, as far as I can tell the only class size under law is via the 1999 education scotland act which states 30 pupils to a single teacher.
The council are working to guidelines from the Scottish Executive 2007 leaflet saying class sizes for P1 should be no more than 25.

So our arguement is going to be that the council should not be using a guidance leaflet as a legally binding document and over-ruling the legal ruling from 1999.

My questions to the spokesman are as follows-

1. Is it true that the The Education (Lower Primary Class Sizes) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SI1999 No. 1080) were made under the 1980 Act and are relevant in this regard? They establish that the maximum size for a primary one class conducted by a single qualified teacher is 30 pupils. It follows that when the maximum size is exceeded, an additional teacher must be employed by the education authority is this true ? (the answer to this is YES)
2. Do you believe that a guidance letter, or agreement between the Scottish Government and local authorities, can legally over-rule statutory regulations? (yes or no doesnt matter really)
3. Should the appeal committee decide today that K**** could attend G***** primary school would an additional teacher actually have to be employed? (the answer to this has to be NO because even the 2007 S.E.E.D. State that 'excepted' children do not count toward the class numbers, by gaining a place through appeal K**** would be classed as an 'excepted child'.)
4. Should the appeal committee decide today that K****would the council have to employ an additional teacher in future years? (again the answer to this is NO as the class sizes for P2 upward is 30 also)
5. Would K**** getting a place at G******school have an effect on the council budget for schooling?(again the answer to this is NO as an 'excepted' child she would have no effect on the official school figures)

I am certain we have a very good case (there have been a few cases in Scotland last year were this arguement has been fought and won in court).What would be helpful is an idea of the questions that may be asked of us. The school we are trying to get her into is the school her sister went to (she missed out on a sibling place because her sister left for high school August 2008), it's also a faith school and we are not religious but have a fairly good reason why the children are not baptised (my husband parents are both ministers of a different faith).
Any help or advise would be most welcomed.

You're working on Scottish law here and I don't know about that. You seem to be very well researched and from what you've written I think you have enough to set the panel thinking. If you have proof in case law then make sure you have that reference. There should be a solicitor availabe to the panel who will be able to advise them.

I sympathise regarding the sibling connection, my two were 7 years apart so we fell foul of that also!
If the appeal panel is a faith school panel then they may well ask questions about your faith and why your daughters aren't baptised.
As I've said before , I haven't experience of faith panels so I'm really not much help. Sorry.

Best of luck and I hope you get the desired outcome!

S

sal-ad_daze

mygirlsnan wrote: »

My grandaughter has been refused her secondary school of choice on the grounds that she lives too far away from the school,the primary school her and her sister attend is right near the secondary school she was not too far away when she was accepted there, could this be used in an appeal, we do have other grounds for appeal but need to use everything we can, HELP! Thanks

The allocation will have been made on her home address, where the primary she attends is in relation to the secondary has no bearing whatsoever. It also has no bearing on how her primary place was allocated.
The criteria for secondary schools
1 Looked After Children
2 Medical Reasons (usually supported by a statement naming the school)
3 Siblings
4 Geography

It sounds as if you were geographically too far away. The LA representative should be able to tell you how far away the last child allocated lives from the school, make sure you know how far you are ( you can use multimap etc. but the LA will refer to their own mapping system which may vary slightly). Are there any footpaths that you use that shorten the distance that the LA may not take into consideration?
This I think is where your case rests so research it well.
Good luck

sal-ad_daze

petesmith0071 wrote: »

can anyone help me please.

my son has`nt got into the same school as my daughter.

the school he got into starts and finishishes at the same time as my daughters and is quite a distance away from each other. this would make it imposiible to pick them up at the same time.
we are appealing against this decision. but we are just outside the catchment area of the school(credit crunch forced the move.enough said)

can someone just clarify the position on siblings. the school admissions code states that siblings should be given priority to ensure the stability of the child and the family.

were as the local government priority list puts siblings at number 4 on the list and catchment area in 3rd place.

the school list of admissions says that 0 siblings got into the school and 30 places were given to the catchment area.

surley they should put a few places for siblings. i know of 3 mothers at the school with 1 or 2 other children in the school which reside in the catchment area and have not got a place at the school.
PLEASE HElp i`m going crazy reading the schools admission code+the schools appeal admissions code and the SSFA 1998.

thanks

Having just sat on appeals for 3 Primary schools, the priority listings we have are as follows;
1 Looked After Children
2 Medical (usually a statement naming the school)
3 IN ZONE with Siblings
4 IN ZONE
5 OUT OF ZONE with Siblings
6 OUT OF ZONE
7 Late Applications (in order of date application received)

We had a number of families with siblings in the school, but most were Out Of Zone as the school had filled by category 4.
You unfortunately won't have much of a chance if the Authority is arguing 'Qualifying measures' ie class sizes of 30 children as the law states that is the maximum number for a key stage 1 class unless you can prove there has been maladministration by the LA.
Edited to say, check and double check the catchment area, look at maps see where it's drawn I've lost count of the number of appeals I've done where people think they live in the catchment area (or in zone) when they actually don't.
I'm sorry I can't be much more help.

sal-ad_daze

red_fox wrote: »

Hi

I feel really desperate I don’t know what to do next. I applied for 4 schools and was rejected by all of them. The council has offered us the worse school in the borough that has a lot of behavior problems and is a bus journey away. I have to work so I think it’s impossible to get my younger son to nursery, then get my older son on the bus to school then to get to work. I am on all the waiting lists for all the schools and would like to appeal but I don’t think I have a case. I wouldn’t mind if I had got one of the choices

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated

Does your authority have a 'Choice Advisor'? If so you need to go and speak to them, also find out where your local 'Parent Partnership' is and go and get advice from them, they will know your area well; how far away is the allocated school, is the journey unworkable? All that sort of thing they will have local knowledge of that I can't help you with.
If you're on the waiting lists, just keep your fingers crossed and hopefully come September there will be a few 'no shows'!
Sorry I can't be more help.
S