School appeals - help offered

Bubby

Hello :hello:

I would be very grateful for any advice anyone could give me with regards to reception class admissions. My eldest is already at the school but it is out of our catchment area so I am worried that my youngest may not get a space for next year (I am having sleepless nights already:o). Is it still true that you can hold off on primary school until your child reaches 5?
If I have to send them to different schools will one school accept that I will be late on drop offs and collections as it will not be possible to be in 2 places at the same time and I have no one that could help me?

Also how does the maximum 30 in a class rule if the class is split between reception 15 and year 1 15?

Thank you for reading

bonty44

Hi Bubby; can you post a list of the school's admissions criteria, these should be freely available, then also can you post what classes are in each year group and what the capacity for each class is; also if you know the net capacity, i.e. the maximum number the school is allowed to take, then I might be able to advise you ... having gone through an (unsuccessful) appeal earlier this year, it is the most stressful thing that I have ever experienced.

Dont' even worry about worst case scenario yet! You may find that siblings come very high up the criteria so you should be okay

Bubby

The admission rules for community and voluntary controlled schools are
shown below in descending order of priority.
1. Children with a Statement of Special Educational Needs that names
the school in Part 4 of the Statement.6

2. Children who are looked after by a local authority within the meaning of
section 22 of the Children Act 1989 at the time of their application, and
who will still be looked after at the time when they are due to be
admitted to the school.7

3. Disabled children who need to be admitted to a school on the grounds
of physical accessibility. The definition of disability is that contained
within the Disability Discrimination Act as amended.
4. Children who live in the school's designated area. If there are more
applicants than places in this category priority will be given in the
following descending order:
a) First priority in category 4 will go to those children who have brothers
or sisters who will be attending the preferred school at the time of
entry. However, if there are more applicants than places in category
4(a) priority will be given, within this group, to those children who live
closest to the school by the nearest designated public route as defined
on the Directorate of Children, Young People & Families Geographic
Information System.
b) Second priority in category 4 will go to those children who live closest
to the school by the nearest designated public route as defined on the
Directorate of Children, Young People & Families Geographic
Information System
5. Children living outside the designated area who have a brother or
sister who will be attending the preferred school at the time of entry. If
there are more applicants than places in this category priority will be
given within this group to children who live closest to the school by the
nearest designated public route as defined on the Directorate of

Children, Young People & Families Geographic Information System

I am not sure of the total in the school but can find out. I know that the reception that has just gone up which will be half of the class next year is 15. I know its a long way off but I am a worrier and these things always seem to be a battle for us....
Also would you put a 2nd and 3rd choice on the application form as there is a local school that I don't want my child to go to but I know they always have spaces. Does it make a difference at appeal with a sibling being at the school and being too young to make their own way there? (as we are out of catchment there is no transport)

thankyou for replying

Spendless

Bubby-how did you get your eldest into this school? Not that I have any personal experience of school appeals but if your concern is that your youngest's is born in a 'bumper' year, you can sometimes tell by noting how many kids are at the local mums & tots/playgroups/day nurseries, which might give you some idea.

bonty44

Hi Bubby

Thanks for the admissions criteria; it would seem then that you are in Category 5, and that your position will depend on how close outside the designated catchment area you live to the school. Don't be too disheartened, though, as they are very unlikely to receive more than a handful of applications for Categories 1/2/3.

Don't just put down a 2/3rd school to fill in the spaces on the application form; if you are unsuccessful in your application then the LEA will allocate a school for you. However, obviously you have more control over 2/3rd choices if you fill in these on the form.

I didn't even consider another school for DS2 as I wanted him to attend DS1's school; however, there were more applicants than places and the LEA allocated a different school for DS2. I have to say that, if I had gone round looking at the other primaries, the allocated school would have been my first choice but I wouldn't even have considered it as it meant separating my kids. Luckily DS2 has now got in DS1s school.

Also, the maximum capacity for a KS1 class is 30 children.

How many classes are there in each year group? And how many children in each group are Reception/Year 1, etc. Are there 15 in each class or just this particular current year group?

And what is the school's PAN? (Published Admissions Number)

You can go onto the LEA website or speak to the Admissions Team at the LEA and ask for last year's figures; they should be able to tell you how many children from each category applied. This might put your mind at rest.

Your last question:
Does it make a difference at appeal with a sibling being at the school and being too young to make their own way there? (as we are out of catchment there is no transport

I'm afraid the answer to this is no; if you are unsuccessful and you go to appeal, if you can't prove Class Size Prejudice (i.e. that the school is admitting insufficient children to reach the legal maximum of 30), then for KS1 they will not take transport into account.

I had letters from my Doctor / Place of Employment / Son's Nursery / Health Team at the Hospital / Church, yet these did not sway their decision.

Stupidly I got rid of my Ben Rooney book as I never ever wanted to think about the Appeals Process again; but it might be worth having a read of the book in preparation.

bonty44

Hi again - I have just gone back through my records on the appeal; if schools have 'vertical streaming' then a class made up of Year R/Year 1s is called a composite class; the maximum limit is again 30.

Therefore, if there are 15 children in the current Year R in that class, they will only be able to offer 15 places to next year's Year R. However, until we know how many classes are in a Year group and what the PAN is I can't suggest anything else.

Hope this helps.

Bubby

Thankyou for that info thats really great.:D

I have just found out that there are actually only 14 admitted into this reception year so in theory they could take 16 for next year if no-one else joins?

How do I find out the catchment areas for the school?
How do I find out the pan?

I have made the decision to keep my eldest at the existing school regardless of what happens as I know that this would have a very detrimental effect on learning (very very sensitive child) so I will just have to run around like a headless chicken instead if I have to split them:eek:
Does anyone on here send their children to seperate schools? How does it work if you "have" to be late on drop offs and collections because they are too young to travel themselves? Will the LEA tell the school they have to accept this situation (lateness)?

I really appreciate all the advice you are :A

bonty44

Hiya - yes, that's right, they could admit 16.

The school should be able to give you the catchment areas and PAN - the school should have a copy of a map indicating the catchment areas on it.

Also, if you do find you are in the situation of having them at different schools, I think it would be reasonable for you to speak to the Education Welfare Officer (it is probably the same person for both schools) and let them know that one or the other is likely to be late; this way when they come in to visit the schools they won't need to speak to you about your children's attendance, etc.

Bubby

Thank you hopefully I am worrying over nothing but with such small class sizes and with 2/3 of the children already applying that live in the catchment area its very frustrating. Where we used to live if you had a sibling at the school you automatically got in so now I wish we had sent our eldest to a catchment school. All the local schools are way above the National average and we are very lucky that education is very good where we live but it is the prospect of having them at 2 different schools that is the worry:rolleyes:

Fingers, toes etc crossed. I don't think there is any need for me to read anymore into it (re the book etc) as if they are full I don't really have any right of appeal as it is reception so I will go and look around a couple of other schools and see if I feel happy with putting them down as numbers 2 and 3 so that they don't just allocate us the HUGE local primary which with being a very shy child am not sure she would cope with.
Who thought schooling could be so stressful:rolleyes:

bonty44

Bubby wrote: »

Thank you hopefully I am worrying over nothing but with such small class sizes and with 2/3 of the children already applying that live in the catchment area its very frustrating. Where we used to live if you had a sibling at the school you automatically got in so now I wish we had sent our eldest to a catchment school. All the local schools are way above the National average and we are very lucky that education is very good where we live but it is the prospect of having them at 2 different schools that is the worry:rolleyes:

Fingers, toes etc crossed. I don't think there is any need for me to read anymore into it (re the book etc) as if they are full I don't really have any right of appeal as it is reception so I will go and look around a couple of other schools and see if I feel happy with putting them down as numbers 2 and 3 so that they don't just allocate us the HUGE local primary which with being a very shy child am not sure she would cope with.
Who thought schooling could be so stressful:rolleyes:

I know. If I knew then what I know now, I would never have sent DS1 to his school.

I am sure it will all be fine.