Brand new noisy CH water pump

keystone

May seem a bit of a daft question but has he fitted the pump the corect way round?

Cheers

Shuggieg

keystone wrote: »

May seem a bit of a daft question but has he fitted the pump the corect way round?

Cheers

Funny you should say that, someone suggested that on another forum, but not sure how you can tell. Everything works fine just the noise from the air gurgling in the pump.

rgds
Hugh

keystone

Just noticed that he only flushed the boiler leaving the rest of the system full of carp. Not the sharpest knife in the box huh? It may actually have been a pile of muck in the impellor of your old circulator causing the noise (rather than the bearings) on higher speed and it just needed a good clean rather than a new pump. The "not pumping enough" statement says to me poor circulation which then says filthy system or blockage. If so then its possible that the new circulator is now also full of stuff - hence the noises.

Is it a pressurised system or do you have a more conventional two tanks in the roof installation. If the latter has the smaller F&E tank actually got some water in it and if it has what (ie hot or cold) temperature is it?

I'd suggest that he puts his "give the whole system a flush at extra cost" idea where the sun doesn't shine until he actually identifies the cause of the problem. It may well be that the pump he fitted shouldn't actually have passed QC in the factory the first place.

Cheers

Shuggieg

Hi Keystone

We had on going problems with the boiler which 3 previous plumbers/engineers had not been able to fix entirely (each saying the previous one didn't know what they were doing!!). We knew there was lots of sludge in the system when we changed an old rad for a new towel stack in ensuite. So to unclog the boiler it was decided to power flush the boiler using more severe chemicals than a complete system power flush would do and then fit the filter to stop any more sludge getting into the boiler (was that not a sound reason?). The old pump was complaining a bit and more than one plumber had said the bearings had gone and needed replacing.

I think its an open system with the small tank in the loft, I will have a look at it tomorrow. But when I called him back he checked the small tank and found the pipe wasn't long enough leaving too big a gap between it and the water so fitted an extra length of pipe to it.

Interesting point about pump QC. I am trying to become a better informed purchaser of plumbing services and your input is very helpful.

regards
Hugh

keystone

Shuggieg wrote: »

and then fit the filter to stop any more sludge getting into the boiler (was that not a sound reason?).

In my humble opinion no. If it was that bad the whole system should have been cleaned out. Just relying on afilter to deal with it isn't good practice. The filters work well on a clean system but not on a dirty system.

The old pump was complaining a bit and more than one plumber had said the bearings had gone and needed replacing.

Did you see the old pump after it was taken out. Was it full of crud?

I think its an open system with the small tank in the loft, I will have a look at it tomorrow.

Yes please. What I'm trying to establish is whether the system is pumping over. If its doing that due to crud in the pipework or a magnetite blockage (which a power flush will NOT shift) then the F&E tank will be warm or hot when the system is running. When that happens you start circulating aerated water and you never get rid of the air.

But when I called him back he checked the small tank and found the pipe wasn't long enough leaving too big a gap between it and the water so fitted an extra length of pipe to it.

Ok typical height of vent pipe above water level is 30 - 40 cm. What is it with the extra bit of pipe added?

Interesting point about pump QC

Sorry to say it but the Wilo is a cheap circulator andf there are reasons that they are cheap. Its not definite but always possible that a faulty unit was installed.

Cheers

Shuggieg

keystone wrote: »

In my humble opinion no. If it was that bad the whole system should have been cleaned out. Just relying on afilter to deal with it isn't good practice. The filters work well on a clean system but not on a dirty system.

Would a power flush of whole system be able to use strong enough chemicals to deal with the blockage in the boiler? (reason given for only power flushing the boiler)

Did you see the old pump after it was taken out. Was it full of crud?
No didn't see the old pump unfortunately

Yes please. What I'm trying to establish is whether the system is pumping over. If its doing that due to crud in the pipework or a magnetite blockage (which a power flush will NOT shift) then the F&E tank will be warm or hot when the system is running. When that happens you start circulating aerated water and you never get rid of the air.

F&E tank has cold water in it. Observed when switched system on and until it got up to speed and pump making its usual gurgling sound. No activity in the F&E tank. Pushed the ballcock just make sure water comes in ok.

Ok typical height of vent pipe above water level is 30 - 40 cm. What is it with the extra bit of pipe added?

Diagram in the instruction manual for Glowworm 18hxi says 45cm min from top of bend in vent feed to water surface. With extension that is now 66cm. Gap between end of vent pipe and water surface is 9cm.

Sorry to say it but the Wilo is a cheap circulator andf there are reasons that they are cheap. Its not definite but always possible that a faulty unit was installed.

What type of pump would you recommend?

Thanks again for your time and input

Regards
Hugh

gas4you

Grundfos pumps are still the best but are more expensive.

There should be an arrow on the cast body of the pump indicating the direction of water flow through it.

Can't see why he hasn't replaced the pump under warranty. I would do this automatically if the pump is still noisy after 3 or 4 days.

keystone

Shuggieg wrote: »

Would a power flush of whole system be able to use strong enough chemicals to deal with the blockage in the boiler? (reason given for only power flushing the boiler)

. If you had a scaled up hex the no amount of power "flushing" is going to shiuft it. Likewise a magnetite blockage in the pipework.

No didn't see the old pump unfortunately

Pity.

F&E tank has cold water in it. Observed when switched system on and until it got up to speed and pump making its usual gurgling sound. No activity in the F&E tank. Pushed the ballcock just make sure water comes in ok.

OK thanks so not pumping over then. Rule that one out.

Diagram in the instruction manual for Glowworm 18hxi says 45cm min from top of bend in vent feed to water surface. With extension that is now 66cm. Gap between end of vent pipe and water surface is 9cm.

A low vent pipe can lead to pumping over even without the assistance of a blockage. He obviously suspected pumping over and extended the vent as a belt and braces exercise but examination of the F&E tank would have told him if the system was pumping over before he needed to do that.

What type of pump would you recommend?

Like G4U a Grundfos.

Cheers

keystone

gas4you wrote: »

Can't see why he hasn't replaced the pump under warranty.

Agree entirely - what I was hinting at I suppose.

Cheers

gas4you

Well I would always change it, if for nothing else other than to eliminate it as the cause of noise and keep my customer happy.

I always carry a pump on the van, so even if it made no difference, I could still use your pump later as it would still be new.

The golden rule is NEVER assume a new part is working properly if problems occur after fitting it.