Southern Electric taking huge unauthorised Direct Debit?

bengal-stripe

stclair wrote: »

I would wet myself laughing if I actually got you lol

stclair wrote: »

It was a pleausre speaking to you :rotfl:

I take it, you did wet yourself.

pinkpinkuk

stclair wrote: »

It was a pleausre speaking to you :rotfl:

Haha brilliant. Thank you so much :beer:

jalexa

pinkpinkuk wrote: »

OK I phoned RBS, they will reverse the payment. I won't get any charges because the payment hasn't gone thruogh yet.

Glad that the bank people, in particular stclair sorted you out and that (fortuitously) it seems that, due to holiday timing, charges won't become an issue.

I want to say a few words about the Southern Electric side. When you said the switch went through "earlier this month" do you actually mean March? In that case, missing notice excepted, there probably would have been time to issue notice. There are a number of scenarios possible, (1) Southern Electric sent notice by mail and it got "lost in the post" (2) the Southern Electric billing system generated notice but there was a printing failure or (3) the billing system didn't generate a bill and/or notice.

If you challenge a Southern Electric adviser on this you are quite likely to be told "the system says...". Effectively one person's word against another. Up to you to either let it go or build a "forensic" case on the lack of notice.

How did you previously receive bills? If online can you see the final bill? Date? How did you previously receive notice of variation to DD date or amount? How many days notice does your mandate specify? Does Southern Electric give the notice on the bill or seperately?

One explanation you might want to eliminate. I know that recent Southern Electric DD mandate wording has been updated to include payment instruction given by phone to an adviser. The point about that is in that case the DD payment mechanism actually operates without email or letter notice, so make sure the system is not citing that method. BTW, the original "non-contact" is irrelevant because the amount was not known at that stage.

There is no harm in raising the issue as a complaint and awaiting the Southern Electric response. If you like "forensics" insist on a written (or email) response.

pinkpinkuk

jalexa wrote: »

Glad that the bank people, in particular stclair sorted you out and that (fortuitously) it seems that, due to holiday timing, charges won't become an issue.

I want to say a few words about the Southern Electric side. When you said the switch went through "earlier this month" do you actually mean March? In that case, missing notice excepted, there probably would have been time to issue notice. There are a number of scenarios possible, (1) Southern Electric sent notice by mail and it got "lost in the post" (2) the Southern Electric billing system generated notice but there was a printing failure or (3) the billing system didn't generate a bill and/or notice.

If you challenge a Southern Electric adviser on this you are quite likely to be told "the system says...". Effectively one person's word against another. Up to you to either let it go or build a "forensic" case on the lack of notice.

How did you previously receive bills? If online can you see the final bill? Date? How did you previously receive notice of variation to DD date or amount? How many days notice does your mandate specify? Does Southern Electric give the notice on the bill or seperately?

One explanation you might want to eliminate. I know that recent Southern Electric DD mandate wording has been updated to include payment instruction given by phone to an adviser. The point about that is in that case the DD payment mechanism actually operates without email or letter notice, so make sure the system is not citing that method. BTW, the original "non-contact" is irrelevant because the amount was not known at that stage.

There is no harm in raising the issue as a complaint and awaiting the Southern Electric response. If you like "forensics" insist on a written (or email) response.

I phoned Southern Electric this morning to try and find out what happened and how I owe so much.

Firstly I was apparently issued with a final bill on their online billing system. What they do is set up an online account and post you an access code. I didn't receive this access code when I first signed up. I have requested an access code twice since then but have never had one. I still can't access the online billing system to see my final bill but the adviser assures me it is there.

I was a bit upset and quite honestly didn't understand a lot of what she was saying. As I understand it I owed around £90 from the July 2011 to October 2011 period (I'm not quite sure how this came about, because I was paying over this period). My direct debits of £35 for November 2011 and December 2011 just went into paying this amount off, and were not covering my usage for that period, so by the time of my next bill in January 2012, which was an estimated bill, they estimated I owed around £100. They then got notice of me changing supplier around 12th March 2012 (before my next quarterly bill) and based on the actual meter reading I owe £307. She said the estimated bill in January 2012 must have been well underestimating my usage.

I must admit I was crying by the end of the phone call and not taking much in, but she said I do owe that much and I can either pay in one go or set up a payment plan to pay it off over 2-3 months. I told her I can't afford to do that either.

I asked why my direct debit was never increased when it became clear I wasn't covering my current usage and she said that as bills are quarterly I was only "behind" with one payment, and they don't review direct debits until you are "behind" with at least 2 payments.

She said I should check if I am in a contract yet with NPower, and if not I should switch back to Southern Electric and that way they can factor in my arrears with my current usage and spread it out over longer. She gave me her name and extension number and said wait until my bank have reversed the direct debit for £307 and then call her back.

jackieb

That's why I stopped changing suppliers. I found it to be far more hassle than it was worth. Although, I just submitted a reading last month and found I was almost £400 in credit for my gas and electricity, so I asked for it to be paid back into my bank account - but I do pay around £200 a month for both of mine.

My son's monthly gas direct debit went up from £35 to £95 in less than a year. In my opinion they nearly always start off with a low payment to reel you in. If you're going to swap around you really need to keep on top of your monthly meter readings so you don't get into situations like this.

I know it's hard but we all learn from our mistakes. You'll know what to do in the future now. x

jalexa

pinkpinkuk wrote: »

Firstly I was apparently issued with a final bill on their online billing system. What they do is set up an online account and post you an access code. I didn't receive this access code when I first signed up. I have requested an access code twice since then but have never had one. I still can't access the online billing system to see my final bill but the adviser assures me it is there.

I think the adviser might have just dug a big hole for Southern Electric:). Online billing is common and it may even be a requirement of the tariff, however the existence of the bill on the online system is not relevant unless an email was sent to bring that to your attention.

Does Southern Electric have your email address? When was the last email successfully received from Southern Electric? Ever? I suggest raising a formal complaint in writing alleging (1) that Southern Electric failed to send an email advising that an online bill was ready, (2) that they twice failed to fulfill your request for an access code and (3) that they have relied on an online bill to an account which has not been activated with an access code.

This is just guesswork but is it possible Southern Electric hold an erroneous email address? That does not affect your right to raise a complaint. Until Southern Electric have confirmed the email address they hold, (or none), I would not provide Southern Electric your current email address but insist on a written response. I hope you see the point I am making there.:D

The size of the bill is a seperate issue. Do not combine the two issues. If I have time I will look at the numbers later.

pinkpinkuk

jalexa wrote: »

I think the adviser might have just dug a big hole for Southern Electric:). Online billing is common and it may even be a requirement of the tariff, however the existence of the bill on the online system is not relevant unless an email was sent to bring that to your attention.

Does Southern Electric have your email address? When was the last email successfully received from Southern Electric? Ever? I suggest raising a formal complaint in writing alleging (1) that Southern Electric failed to send an email advising that an online bill was ready, (2) that they twice failed to fulfill your request for an access code and (3) that they have relied on an online bill to an account which has not been activated with an access code.

This is just guesswork but is it possible Southern Electric hold an erroneous email address? That does not affect your right to raise a complaint. Until Southern Electric have confirmed the email address they hold, (or none), I would not provide Southern Electric your current email address but insist on a written response. I hope you see the point I am making there.:D

The size of the bill is a seperate issue. Do not combine the two issues. If I have time I will look at the numbers later.

Thank you so much for this post, its so useful.

Quick update first of all: I called NPower, told them about the issues I've been having with Southern Electric. They've told me the transfer has gone through, but have looked at my estimated usage versus what I actually should have been paying and revised their estimate, which means I'll be paying more per month, but won't end up in the same situation with them. They've also altered my account to one where I can provide monthly meter readings online, so my bills will be accurate and not estimated.

I then phoned Southern Electric and told them I am still trying to get my head around what's happened, and asked them to post me a copy of all my bills for the contract so I can look at how much I owed at each point, which they've agreed to do.

Fortunately I've kept all my emails and have gone through them to find any from Southern Electric. I have:

• One email on 24th December 2011 asking me to give a meter reading via my online account. At that time I tried to log in to my online account but didn't have the access code, which should have been sent by post. This was possibly when I requested the access code for the first time (since the account was first set up), but I have a feeling I had already requested the access code by that point and not received it.

• One email from 7th January 2012 with a link to reset my password. I requested this because I still couldn't access my online account, but even with resetting my password I couldn't access it because I didn't have the posted access code, so on that date I requested the access code for the second time.

I have no emails at all telling me a bill is ready, although it does look as though they have my correct email address, or at least have had my correct email address since December 2011.

jalexa

pinkpinkuk wrote: »

I have no emails at all telling me a bill is ready, although it does look as though they have my correct email address, or at least have had my correct email address since December 2011.

That's good. In that case there are benefits in making the complaint by email. IMO, my grounds (1), (2) and (3) are still valid. Up to Southern Electric to respond with an answer. Unless they have a very good watertight answer I would expect a £50 ex-gratia payment in these circumstances. You and you alone decide whether you are satisfied with the response. If you remain dissatisfied after 8 weeks (including for D&I adequacy) you are entitled to ask the Energy Ombudsman to consider the complaint. There is no cost to you but the "cost" to Southern Electric is considerably greater than £50.:D

http://www.southern-electric.co.uk/HelpAndAdvice/ComplaintsProcedure/

You will see there are very demanding (of Southern Electric) initial timeframes. Police that as hard as you like.

I want to make another comment, partly for the benefit of others, but please don't be offended. A telephone contact with a company adviser is an unequal contest unless the caller is both well informed and confident. So be wary of engaging in a debate or argument. Write your concerns down first and your expectations for resolution. Then do not deviate from what you have written down unless you are 100% satisfied with the proposed response, including D&I "compo" which you may need to gently hint about:). A breakdown at this initial telephone stage entitles you to move to escalation by email or writing.

pinkpinkuk

jalexa wrote: »

That's good. In that case there are benefits in making the complaint by email. IMO, my grounds (1), (2) and (3) are still valid. Up to Southern Electric to respond with an answer. Unless they have a very good watertight answer I would expect a £50 ex-gratia payment in these circumstances. You and you alone decide whether you are satisfied with the response. If you remain dissatisfied after 8 weeks (including for D&I adequacy) you are entitled to ask the Energy Ombudsman to consider the complaint. There is no cost to you but the "cost" to Southern Electric is considerably greater than £50.:D

http://www.southern-electric.co.uk/HelpAndAdvice/ComplaintsProcedure/

You will see there are very demanding (of Southern Electric) initial timeframes. Police that as hard as you like.

I want to make another comment, partly for the benefit of others, but please don't be offended. A telephone contact with a company adviser is an unequal contest unless the caller is both well informed and confident. So be wary of engaging in a debate or argument. Write your concerns down first and your expectations for resolution. Then do not deviate from what you have written down unless you are 100% satisfied with the proposed response, including D&I "compo" which you may need to gently hint about:). A breakdown at this initial telephone stage entitles you to move to escalation by email or writing.

Thank you so much, I really appreciate all your help :T