Im not having a go...

Lifeisbutadream

.. but

Ive just seen this section and probably should have posted my other thread on it..

I run a small business and someone owes us money and I have had to pay out another substantial amount to get a charge on his property so that I will eventually get paid should he make himself bankrupt.

Just a question to anyone who has declared themselves bankrupt, do you ever give a thought to the people that you owe money to and might not get it?? Our business could easily go under because of things like this and we have worked very hard to set it up (my husband works up to 70 hours a week - I work at least 30 - we have 2 small children).

I honestly arent having a go at anyone - I dont know anyones circumstances, but I am intrigued as to whether anyone thinks about how it can effect the other side??

scootw1

Interesting point. I guess most people think of creditors as the big greedy banks and CC companies but there are small businesses like yourselves as well. I wonder if the OR looks at who the creditors are and sets aside more of the IPA for them first and then the big boys later? Anyone know?

plumduff-2

Of course people realise that it effects other people and companies... BR is not an easy option for people who chose to use it as the legal method to deal with their debt...

Generally people who go BR though, are at end of their tether and this is the only viable option available to them...

Lifeisbutadream

The only way to have any say in what happens to the money is by paying more money out as we have had to, to get a charge on the property, so the big boys are more likely to get money than smaller businesses like us.

On this occasion though, the person who owes us money knew that he couldnt pay us and yet still instructed us to do the work to his house. It was the principle of the matter and we borrowed money to be able to pay for court charges and the charging order.

The whole thing has cost us almost £2000, none of which we will see unless this person dies, sells his house or goes bankrupt, but if we hadnt paid out for a charging order and he had gone bankrupt, then we wouldnt see a penny of it.

It seems very unfair as we have done nothing wrong and I was also at the end of my tether when I was sending letters and ringing this person every day as we did not have enough money to pay ourselves a wage for a month and had to borrow money to pay for our mortgage.

plumduff-2

I doint understand this... you say you have a CO - well, Cos usually have some provision stating the 'debtor' must pay £x amount every month to the debt... The debt isnt just static until the person dies or sells the house...

It has a payment plan attached to it which the debtor pays until the house is sold, that way if they renege on the payment plan you can go back to court to try to force the sale of the house...

Are you sure you dont have a payment plan attached to the CO...?

But had they debtor filed for BR - then rather than moaning about the small amount you had lost - you could look at oit for the reality it would be - that the debtor is so severly in debt that BR was the only option open to them,.... I dont think anyone would go BR just to shirk out of a paying a debt...

Lifeisbutadream

plumduff-2 wrote:

I doint understand this... you say you have a CO - well, Cos usually have some provision stating the 'debtor' must pay £x amount every month to the debt... The debt isnt just static until the person dies or sells the house...

It has a payment plan attached to it which the debtor pays until the house is sold, that way if they renege on the payment plan you can go back to court to try to force the sale of the house...

Are you sure you dont have a payment plan attached to the CO...?

But had they debtor filed for BR - then rather than moaning about the small amount you had lost - you could look at oit for the reality it would be - that the debtor is so severly in debt that BR was the only option open to them,.... I dont think anyone would go BR just to shirk out of a paying a debt...

This man owes our business £1400 for works done to his property.

He refused to pay - he said that he couldnt afford it as he did not have a job (although he allowed us to quote him and then do the work).

This was in June 2006. I started court proceedings and the man said he would pay £1 per month (a quick calculation says that would take 116 years to pay off - it also costs me 25p every time I bank a cheque, plus the cost of my time and getting to the bank, would cost more to pay in than I would be getting).

I rejected that offer and so did the judge, meaning that the full amount was payable. As he is still refusing to pay ANYTHING (I would have accepted a reasonable sum, but £1 per month is NOT a reasonable sum) I had no choice but to take out a charging order against his property, costing me MORE money, because I found out that he was considering making himself bankrupt (he has another CCJ for £5000, which he had before he agreed to allow us to do the work).

No interest will be added on to the amount that is outstanding now (however that amount is now around £1800 because of court costs and interest added in the time that were were allowed to add interest.

Lifeisbutadream

Oh and the 'small amount that I have lost' is the equivalent to 11 percent of our entire profit for the past year, which equates to 440 man hours work between myself and my husband.

plumduff-2

Is the CO interim or final...

If final it should have conditions attached to it and the main one of these is the payment plan... Should the debtor then renege on the PP, you can enforce the CO via a sale...

You need to check what stage you are up to and if final - you need to check the conditions of the order for the PP... you say the £1 pm was rejected by you and the judge, so what offer has been accepted...?

Lifeisbutadream

No payment plan has been agreed and I have only just paid the money for the charging order, so I dont know what happens next.

Does that mean that I might get a regular payment? I just thought that I wouldnt get paid until the house was sold, or if he wanted to reduce his debt.

lush_walrus

Lifeisbutadream wrote:

Oh and the 'small amount that I have lost' is the equivalent to 11 percent of our entire profit for the past year, which equates to 440 man hours work between myself and my husband.

I can completely see your point (luckily I haven't been affected by this due to the business I am in). Personally, I think very few people who go bankrupt (or for that matter those who advise it) think at all about the consequences on others. I might be wrong, but people generally only think of their own circumstances in life. In your case, I hate to say it, but it seems pretty intentional.

Lifeisbutadream

lush_walrus wrote:

I can completely see your point (luckily I haven't been affected by this due to the business I am in). Personally, I think very few people who go bankrupt (or for that matter those who advise it) think at all about the consequences on others. I might be wrong, but people generally only think of their own circumstances in life. In your case, I hate to say it, but it seems pretty intentional.

You are right - even my own accountant didnt consider how it would feel as she has in the past advised clients to consider IVA's and BR - it wasnt until she realised what had happened to us that she started thinking about it!

I do get quite cross that someone can just not pay for something, for ANY reason. Why should people be able to reduce their debt? why should someone else pay for their problems/mistakes???

I understand that in most cases people dont get into problems on purpose, but it should not be up to others to bail them out.