Have you been treated unfairly by Ebay or Paypal?

Brooker_Dave

RFW wrote: »

You're a very funny man, you only have two arguments and never let any facts get in the way of them. I admire your tenacity to your cause, well done.

So you dispute the *fact* that both Ebay and Paypal moved their European operations to **Luxembourg**?

RFW

Brooker_Dave wrote: »

So you dispute the *fact* that both Ebay and Paypal moved their European operations to **Luxembourg**?

So you're choosing to ignore all other facts in this thread and are now asking me to agree with you on something that is indeed factually accurate, ignoring all the other stuff you have written that is nonsense. I believe they have European operation centred in Luxembourg, that doesn't prove any of your other arguments.
Several times you have said Ebay have no offices in the UK when you have been told they have. Others have shown "facts" you have written to be inaccurate, again you choose to ignore them. Hold on to the one thing you have stated that is correct.

A multi national company having a centre in one of those countries is not so startlingly unusual, if they had an HQ in the Cayman Islands or Papua New Guinea or somewhere equally remote you may have an argument.

They have their European headquarters in one of the major European cities. The company is actually "Ebay Europe", not Ebay UK.

I hope you never banked with Abbey National as their headquarters are now in Spain, I'm sure I could list countless major high street companies who have their head offices in other countries, it doesn't mean that they can do what they like whilst trading here.

HTH (by the way you should probably stop posting, I'll end up with a headache from all this HTH).

Brooker_Dave

RFW wrote: »

So you're choosing to ignore all other facts in this thread and are now asking me to agree with you on something that is indeed factually accurate

Your capitulation is accepted.

RFW

Brooker_Dave wrote: »

Your capitulation is accepted.

Your ability to see only what you want to see is a formidable skill.

nothingventured

Now that that particular argument has been settled, perhaps we could get back on topic?

Ebay buyers might like the idea of winning almost every argument but as anyone who fought tooth and nail to avoid eating their greens as a child will know, getting your way all the time is not healthy.

Take a look at the shelves of your local supermarkets, DIY stores etc. if you look carefully, you'll notice that everyone sells the same select brands wherever you go - the shelves may be full but there is little real choice.

What of those small quirky independent shops that once dotted the high street - the ones that sold all the interesting stuff?

Do honest Ebay buyers really want dishonest buyers to keep winning all the arguments and for the small independent sellers to be pushed out? Not if they value the diversity that made Ebay what it is today.

By using the law to bring Ebay back into balance for both buyers and sellers, everyone will benefit.

RFW

nothingventured wrote: »

Now that that particular argument has been settled, perhaps we could get back on topic?

Ebay buyers might like the idea of winning almost every argument but as anyone who fought tooth and nail to avoid eating their greens as a child will know, getting your way all the time is not healthy.

Take a look at the shelves of your local supermarkets, DIY stores etc. if you look carefully, you'll notice that everyone sells the same select brands wherever you go - the shelves may be full but there is little real choice.

What of those small quirky independent shops that once dotted the high street - the ones that sold all the interesting stuff?

Do honest Ebay buyers really want dishonest buyers to keep winning all the arguments and for the small independent sellers to be pushed out? Not if they value the diversity that made Ebay what it is today.

By using the law to bring Ebay back into balance for both buyers and sellers, everyone will benefit.

Forgive me, but what on earth are you on about?

What laws do you think can be used on Ebay to stop a small amount of buyers from being dishonest?

Speaking as a seller of a variety of items, I don't feel threatened or hindered by Ebay. I am an independent seller and not of generic items. I'm happy that Ebay consider the end buyer before anyone else.

Brooker_Dave

nothingventured wrote: »

What of those small quirky independent shops that once dotted the high street - the ones that sold all the interesting stuff?

Do honest Ebay buyers really want dishonest buyers to keep winning all the arguments and for the small independent sellers to be pushed out? Not if they value the diversity that made Ebay what it is today.

By using the law to bring Ebay back into balance for both buyers and sellers, everyone will benefit.

More often than not goods on ebay cost more than they do in shops, and the death of small shops is more the fault of the likes of Tesco than anyone else.

The internet and ebay/amazon has given small shops a way of reaching way beyond their locality and actually clawing some trade back.

The internet is not just Ebay, as I discovered when they nuked my account (for having 98.2% feedback - shame on me), having a good website and being on the first page of google searches is all that really matters.

soolin

For once I find myself in agreement with Dave, eBay is not everything. I buy lots of books still and rarely ever buy on the high street anymore but I rarely buy them on eBay either, Amazon get most of my business.

My OH and two of my sons have hobbies that are now almost entirely sourced online. The local shops went years ago and everything they need has to be bought from independent retailers from websites.

Locallt to me Tesco have just opened a Tesco Expess and there are plans for another in a months time. There are endless petitions, campaigns and angry letters to the local paper, but still they expand and the local shops go out of business.

Blackjack_Davy

nothingventured wrote: »

Do honest Ebay buyers really want dishonest buyers to keep winning all the arguments....

By using the law to bring Ebay back into balance for both buyers and sellers, everyone will benefit.

I'm curious, how exactly do you plan on using "the law" to bring these dishonest buyers to heal?

As far as I understand it smalltime fraud is notoriously difficult to prove and probably not worth chasing financially, it's not just eBay but other major online retailers that have the same problem, apparently at least one retailer is asking its collection drivers to inspect the contents of packages returned to ensure they do actually contain the said items.

The costs of fraud are expected to be absorbed by the sellers who increase their margins thereby pushing up the prices for every buyer, insurance fraud reputedly costs a hefty addition to every premium paid but trying the catch the perpetrators unless they're criminal gangs doing it on an industrial scale is very hard to crack down it would seem.

If you have any major solutions for tackling this problem I'd love to hear what they are and I'm sure the major retailers and insurances companies would be keen to hear it too.

Crowqueen

By using the law to bring Ebay back into balance for both buyers and sellers, everyone will benefit.

There is no balance in consumer law - a lot more is weighted towards the consumer than the middleman - that is, the eBay seller.

eBay are not selling a service which is covered by consumer law, mainly because as people engaging in commercial selling have responsibilities, and business sellers have to abide by the whole raft of legislation themselves.

The main trends in consumer regulations etc. are towards the buyer, not the seller, particularly next year's update to the Distance Selling Regulations.

It is a myth that there has ever been a level-playing field in consumer commerce, and so it is nonsense to claim that eBay should be 'brought back into balance'.

If it was, it would lose what makes it such a good place to sell - that is, the buyer traffic happy to give their money to complete strangers without adequate protection.

Small-time fraud will always be with us. Sellers need to account for it - just like a shopowner needs to account for shoplifting. And it's not just eBay/Paypal, who are not outwith the general legal structure for some bizarre reason like everyone wants to think - it's going to be everyone else out there.

I agree with Soo: eBay is not the be-all and end-all of internet commerce. I buy a lot more elsewhere as a buyer already - if it comes to 'balance', then I will just shop mostly, if not wholly, on Amazon, where I'm not treated like a potential thief. It won't be terribly difficult, as the range of items I will buy on eBay is already fairly narrow.

So - really - you can't 'balance' eBay without running afoul of several thousand paragraphs of legislation designed to protect consumers - genuine consumers, i.e. the end buyers - from sellers out there who have the ideal platform in online selling for properly defrauding their buyers.