What happens to CTC CB HB CTB when child turns 16?

Dunroamin

dktreesea wrote: »

Ah yes, but we live in Britain, where there are relatively few higher education places available of any description, college or university. Just because a teenager wants to continue their education doesn't mean they get to do so. Look at the hugely oversubscribed nursing, plumbing and electrician courses each year. Just because you have high enough marks to get into college doesn't mean you'll get a place. And students wanting to go onto college to study tend to study locally and live at home. Going to uni in a different city is very much a middle class course of events.

You seem to be muddling HE and FE in your answer.

In addition, we have, unfortunately, far more university places than we used to have and most students who apply at the proper time can get on a course of their choosing.

There is very little excuse for anyone of 16 to leave education and training and, again fortunately, they won't be able to do so in the near future.

dktreesea

pauletruth wrote: »

why dont they stay on at school. if they are over 16 and not in education they get nowt. in further education but not higher they keep their benifits.

They might not get to stay on in school. Once you are 16 the school has no obligation to allow you to stay on.

I am not asking about whether the NEET child gets anything. What I was wondering is if parents are low income workers, so get things like help with their housing and council tax, CB, CTC etc, what happens to their income if the child turns 16 and is NEET? That child is still living at home. They still need to be supported by their parents, who presumably have supported them up until then with help, if they are low income from other taxpayers via the benefits system.

So the child in question becomes a NEET. For whatever reason, probably due to heavily oversubscribed places, they can't get into college. They don't have good enough grades to take A levels or highers. If the child is under 18 then they don't get any income in their own right via the benefits system. But at the same time, it seems CB, CTC, and the proportion of the HB and CTB for that child going to the parents also stops.

So does the parents income drop, by e.g. £20 CB, £45 CTC (or whatever it is these days) and a reduction in LHA due to the 16 year old no longer qualifying for their share as a child? And if so, how do they then support their 16 year old NEET?

dktreesea

Dunroamin wrote: »

You seem to be muddling HE and FE in your answer.

In addition, we have, unfortunately, far more university places than we used to have and most students who apply at the proper time can get on a course of their choosing.

There is very little excuse for anyone of 16 to leave education and training and, again fortunately, they won't be able to do so in the near future.

Not really. If the child goes onto HE, then the question doesn't arise. If they have low income parents, they can go and live on campus and get a tuition free education and a grant to live on, and provided they are prudent, finish their education debt free without any tuition fees to pay. And that even happens in England, let alone in Scotland where there are tuition fees but they are paid by the Scottish Executive on the student's behalf.

If they go onto FE, and study locally so stay at home, this is also not an issue because the parents collect whatever benefits they have been collecting until the child turns 20 or enters the workforce, whichever comes first.

But if they don't stay at school, i.e. are not offered a place in the following year, don't get a college place and don't find work, then for them, if they are under 18 the situation for benefits seems clear. They get nix. But the parents still have to support them.

At the moment it appears the benefits continue until 31st of August after the child's 16th birthday. But what happens after that? The child can't get benefits and the parent's benefit income for that child stops. Well, so far from what I have gathered CB and CTC stop. But what about HB and CTC? And if this income stops for the parents, how exactly are 16 and 17 year old NEETS from poor families supported?

it's no good saying they "should" stay in education. The government has no obligation to provide them with access to education after 16. And high schools in particular can't wait to shove those children who are not academically inclined enough to achieve A levels or highers out the door. As for colleges, some of the course at our local colleges are 900% oversubscribed. Talk about a further education system not fit for purpose!

BigAunty

dktreesea wrote: »

,,,

So does the parents income drop, by e.g. £20 CB, £45 CTC (or whatever it is these days) and a reduction in LHA due to the 16 year old no longer qualifying for their share as a child? And if so, how do they then support their 16 year old NEET?

By budgeting, like anyone else in the UK is forced to do if their household experiences a drop in income or increase in expenses for any reason! How else?

Every year around school leaving time, this forum gets hammered by posts from parents who are aghast that their child related benefits cease when their adult child is no longer considered a dependent.

And they are equally shocked to be told that there is no magic replacement benefit and even if their kid qualifies for JSA it may not be as great a sum as they enjoyed through tax credits and child benefit, and even worse from their perspective, it gets paid to their adult child, not them.

They get very upset at being told that their only option is to spend less money - budget. some find it incredible that they are expected to get keep from their child if they qualify for JSA - it is viewed as spending money for their offsprings use. Some parents say their kid refuses to part with any of the JSA to the household kitty.

This is the problem with a benefits approach that targets poverty by subsidising the household budget on a per child basis rather than tackling the issues around high housing costs, low wages and so on. By targeting poverty through children, tackling the causes of adult poverty, that the best route out of it is through employment, is sidelined.

These households with NEETS simply have to change their spending pattern to account for the drop in income. Sure, they've been cushioned by the state for up to 18 years, but that's an end. It's up to them and their adult child to sort out changes to accommodate their new financial position, in the same way a non-benefit dependent household would have to do if one of them experienced a drop in salary or job loss.

Anubis_2

If they go onto FE, and study locally so stay at home, this is also not an issue because the parents collect whatever benefits they have been collecting until the child turns 20 or enters the workforce, whichever comes first.

If the child goes into FE benefits are only paid to 20 providing the child is still doing an allowed course (no higher than A Level)

Normally, children do a 2 year college course for A levels etc, and then move from further Education into HIGHER education. As soon as the move is made to higher education, the benefits stop.

No child is going to want to make A levels spread out 4 years.... So very few will be paid until 20.

As for uni being a middle class thing, I disagree. My son is at Uni, my daughter goes in September, my youngest next year.

None of them have had an issue getting in college or Uni. A good school record along with dedication during the college course will, in most cases, be enough for Uni (along with results.)

Colleges are also now throwing out those who are waisting their time - I am pleased they are finally doing this rather than threatening. If the child does not show enough improvement on a term by term basis and messes around, they are booted out.

My son is doing Law, they have just had exams, four out if his class got Us (unclassified) and were thrown out last week. They haven't even done a year yet and are not allowed to go back. It's about time this was done to get rid of the malingerers.

MissMoneypenny

dktreesea wrote: »

Ah yes, but we live in Britain, where there are relatively few higher education places available of any description, college or university.

We live in the EU and there are plenty of places in the EU.

jellyhead

Anubis wrote: »

No child is going to want to make A levels spread out 4 years.... So very few will be paid until 20.

Some might do a year of GCSE resits though, or start NVQs or BTECH or whatever at level 1 or 2.

My husband was at college for 3 years because he had to do some BTECH thing before they let him onto the course that was equivalent to a levels. He did well on the BTECH and had no problems at university, but his GCSE results from school weren't good enough so he had to spend that extra year in college first.

If my husband had been one of the oldest in his year he would have been almost 17 when he left school, therefore almost 20 when he finished college.

Dunroamin

dktreesea wrote: »

At the moment it appears the benefits continue until 31st of August after the child's 16th birthday. But what happens after that? The child can't get benefits and the parent's benefit income for that child stops. Well, so far from what I have gathered CB and CTC stop. But what about HB and CTC? And if this income stops for the parents, how exactly are 16 and 17 year old NEETS from poor families supported?

it's no good saying they "should" stay in education. The government has no obligation to provide them with access to education after 16. And high schools in particular can't wait to shove those children who are not academically inclined enough to achieve A levels or highers out the door. As for colleges, some of the course at our local colleges are 900% oversubscribed. Talk about a further education system not fit for purpose!

Very few college courses are oversubscribed and there will almost always be alternatives either in another college or another course. In any case, education/training doesn't have to be in schools or colleges, it can be provided by the multitude of training providers that offer this.

If parents allow their children to become NEETS then it seems reasonable that they shouldn't be subsidised for being so.

daviecol

Unfortunately there are probably thousands of families finding themselves in this situation.

The reality of the matter is too many people are relying too heavily on the benefit system to prop up their finances (not necessarily own their fault, but a fact none the less).

daviecol

BigAunty wrote: »

By budgeting, like anyone else in the UK is forced to do if their household experiences a drop in income or increase in expenses for any reason! How else?

Every year around school leaving time, this forum gets hammered by posts from parents who are aghast that their child related benefits cease when their adult child is no longer considered a dependent.

And they are equally shocked to be told that there is no magic replacement benefit and even if their kid qualifies for JSA it may not be as great a sum as they enjoyed through tax credits and child benefit, and even worse from their perspective, it gets paid to their adult child, not them.

They get very upset at being told that their only option is to spend less money - budget. some find it incredible that they are expected to get keep from their child if they qualify for JSA - it is viewed as spending money for their offsprings use. Some parents say their kid refuses to part with any of the JSA to the household kitty.

This is the problem with a benefits approach that targets poverty by subsidising the household budget on a per child basis rather than tackling the issues around high housing costs, low wages and so on. By targeting poverty through children, tackling the causes of adult poverty, that the best route out of it is through employment, is sidelined.

These households with NEETS simply have to change their spending pattern to account for the drop in income. Sure, they've been cushioned by the state for up to 18 years, but that's an end. It's up to them and their adult child to sort out changes to accommodate their new financial position, in the same way a non-benefit dependent household would have to do if one of them experienced a drop in salary or job loss.

How very well put BRAVO!