75 Grand Discount....Right to buy is back...........

Neverland

suburbanwifey wrote: »

Another point, market value on a council house will always be lower than market value on a private house. Council House purchases are always a risk, you may have chav neighbours, drunks, drug addicts, wayward kids, council estates are full of them. Why should they pay more that to buy something that, to be quite honest, I wouldn't buy if they were giving them away? I prefer to pay to live in a quiet, safe area that isn't overrun with masses of noisy kids, which I don't like. So, as they are buying council properties, they deserve them cheaper as most of us out here wouldn't want to live in a private house which is still, sadly, on a council estate.

The road of victorian houses we live on includes a surprising number owned by the local council

Some council houses are very nice and almost all tenants are I'm sure quite capable of living in a civilised society

Many can even spell better than me

Neverland

leveller2911 wrote: »

I can't quite work out whether you genuinely don't understand the fact that Council rents are NOT subsidised or whether your just out trolling... The fact is Council rents are not subsidised and I explained the facts to you in a previous post.

I don't agree with the Council house sell off and I don't have the RTB or RTA.

I would also point out to you that over the years 100,000s of homeowners have had renovation works carried out to their properties paid for by the Council grant system so i'm interested to know your thoughts on that fact..;)

Question: are council rents lower than market rents? If they are they are subsidised, thats it

I don't think private owners should generally have been given grants for anything that added value to their homes. Provisos:
- loans might be appropriate in some cases to ease hardship (e.g. to install an indoor toilet or heating) or meet a greater social good (e.g. energy efficiency)
- in the case of natural disasters
- if the building was of historical interest

The basic problem I have with the UK is that we have more government hand outs than is good for us at all levels of society

olly300

Neverland wrote: »

Question: are council rents lower than market rents? If they are they are subsidised, thats it

It doesn't work like that.

Lots of council housing stock where I've lived in London has been a mixture of 19th Century, early 20th Century, 1930s and 1950s and 1960s-1970s buildings.

The properties from before the 1960s tend to be built of brick and any debts on building them would have been paid off long ago.

The properties from the 1960s-1970s were built with cheaper shoddy materials that have caused problems. Even those buildings would have any debts on them paid off.

This means the rents on all those properties can be just used for the up keep of them.

Ideally councils should be able to set the rents higher so they could build more housing, but the rent money goes into a central government pot and central government used a formula to dole out the money to councils around the country so they can

do their repairs. As the particular council who had the property didn't actually get any more money from the rent if it was higher it was not in their interest to charge high rents. (This is changing)


Where I live in London there are also some large expensive houses yet some of them have been rented out to students or groups of young professionals. I've been inside a few and they are in a good state of repair. When I've asked about the rents they have often been lower than the market rent for a room in a shared house. The reason for this is the owner of the property has likely paid their mortgage.

Neverland wrote: »

I don't think private owners should generally have been given grants for anything that added value to their homes. Provisos:
- loans might be appropriate in some cases to ease hardship (e.g. to install an indoor toilet or heating) or meet a greater social good (e.g. energy efficiency)
- in the case of natural disasters
- if the building was of historical interest

The government gave out grants in the past so people could install indoor toilets, do give them out now for insultation, and to keep elderly/disabled people in their homes for as long as possible. The last is done because it's cheaper.

If there is riot and your property is damaged the government pays money to your insurance company to cover your claim. In regards to flooding until this year the government backed a scheme for insurance companies so if your house was flooded you got a pay out.

Listed buildings are sold to private owners if possible as the up keep is too expensive.

There are ex-council houses in London which are listed and councils will go to auctions to get rid of their obligations on them once tenants have died. In the case of flats they will sell the freehold on them once all the flats have been brought under RTB.

Neverland wrote: »

The basic problem I have with the UK is that we have more government hand outs than is good for us at all levels of society

Council housing doesn't receive hand outs as the buildings have all been paid for.

Social housing built by housing associations hasn't all been paid for.

leveller2911

Neverland wrote: »

Question: are council rents lower than market rents? If they are they are subsidised, thats it



The basic problem I have with the UK is that we have more government hand outs than is good for us at all levels of society

I agree with you final comment however you clearly don't understand how Council rents are set.

The rents are not set in relation to Private rents purely because (as said previously) Council rents are set as a "Fair "rent. This "Fair " rent pays for the mortgage,interest etc. There is no profit included because Councils/Housing Associations were not set up to be profit making.Just because its not profit led doesn't mean its subsidised. As an example we have paid more in rent in the last 20 yrs than it cost to build the house and we will continue to pay rent (unless we buy) for many years to come so the HA is actually making money from our rent. These houses were built with "Grants" from the Housing Corporation and these "Grants" have been paid back.

If you want to whinge about subsidies then look no further than the EU CAP and the Governments car scrappage scheme.

You are confused because Private landlords buy their housing stock at a higher price which includes years of HPI. They then set their rents to include their mortgages,running costs and profit.

Neverland

I think how council how rents are set is kind of irrelevant

The fact is you see two levels of rents in most council estates:

- the (much lower) rent the council charge

- the private rent charged for ex-council properties by private owners (often ex-right to buy tenants themselves), this is the market rent for a property

The Council *could* choose to rent at or close to the the market or private rent, but it chooses not to

The lucky people who have won the lottery for a several year long waiting list with the council get to pay the council rent which is much much less

This is quite clearly a subsidy

Please don't go into a long soliloquy on housing benefit on private rental properties as that is another market distorting subsisdy (this time for a select bunch of landlords) too

I just think its fundamentally wrong to give a bunch of people who are already getting tax-payer funded subisidies another huge subsidy to buy their rental at 50% off just to buy their vote and get them to read the Daily Mail

SteveV2

Blimey! £75k off. That's an instant 50%+ fall

leveller2911

Neverland wrote: »

I think how council how rents are set is kind of irrelevant

The fact is you see two levels of rents in most council estates:

- the (much lower) rent the council charge

- the private rent charged for ex-council properties by private owners (often ex-right to buy tenants themselves), this is the market rent for a property

The Council *could* choose to rent at or close to the the market or private rent, but it chooses not to





I just think its fundamentally wrong to give a bunch of people who are already getting tax-payer funded subisidies another huge subsidy to buy their rental at 50% off just to buy their vote and get them to read the Daily Mail

How Councils set their rents is totally relevent, it may be beyond you to understand it and not like it because it doesn't fit your criteria but they are facts........Council Rents are set in Law as a "Fair rent" this is to pay for the loans to build the properties and running costs, there is NO PROFIT margins or linked to HPI.

Jeezuz you really are thick as a Ghurkas forskin ........There has been at least 4 posts explaining in depth the facts and you still don't get it........ Either that or you are Trolling...;)

Neverland

leveller2911 wrote: »

How Councils set their rents is totally relevent, it may be beyond you to understand it and not like it because it doesn't fit your criteria but they are facts........Council Rents are set in Law as a "Fair rent" this is to pay for the loans to build the properties and running costs, there is NO PROFIT margins or linked to HPI.

Jeezuz you really are thick as a Ghurkas forskin ........There has been at least 4 posts explaining in depth the facts and you still don't get it........ Either that or you are Trolling...;)

The "facts" you are stating are just a construct of an irrelevant bureaucratic system

You're right I'm just ignoring them and simply looking at the difference between the rent on two near identical properties - one owned by the council and rented out cheaper than the one rented out by a private landlord

Every piece of information I've read tells me that the council rent is on average less than half than the private landlord's rent. You again confirm it is less above

I call this a subsidy because the council (if the law allowed) could also achieve a rent for its property at or close to the market rent that the private landlord achieved

Earning a profit on something can be a good thing

Who knows if the council raised its rent to a level closer to the private landlord gradually, earned a profit on some of its existing housing stock from some of the tenants and didn't have to sell its properties off cheaply to those tenants - the council might have the ability and incentives to go and build some more council houses

Council waiting lists might come down a bit

(Radical I know)

stark_source

Sibley wrote: »

Wont make any difference to supply.

What it will do is keep the message going out. ' It's good to own and bad to rent'

You must admit. When you tell anyone your renting its embarrassing.

I've been there. You feel like a 2nd class citizen. Horrible but true.

I don't feel embarrassed at all about renting, and I'm sure many others don't either. I reckon that says more about you than renting in general.

However, I agree with your fundamental point, that the government will do everything it can to keep housing prices inflated. However, I don't agree that this is a good thing, though it is 'good' for those who bought at the wrong time.

When all is said and done, however, each will agrue his own case on the basis of what would serve him best. I crave a drop in housing prices, because I want to buy my first house. You crave an increase in housing prices, because you already got one.

For some reason, I've got the Monty Python's The Holy Grail in my head, right now. Apt, in a way...

leveller2911

Neverland wrote: »

The "facts" you are stating are just a construct of an irrelevant bureaucratic system



Every piece of information I've read tells me that the council rent is on average less than half than the private landlord's rent. You again confirm it is less above

I call this a subsidy because the council (if the law allowed) could also achieve a rent for its property at or close to the market rent that the private landlord achieved

Earning a profit on something can be a good thing


Well if you carry your arguement through then the Water rates you and I pay are subsidised due to the fact that any rise is capped by Central Goverment.Given this fact why should you/I not pay far more in Water rates? and Gas/Electric?......

Last point I agree with you "Earning a profit can be a good thing". My landlords are now making profit from my rent so I would be more than happy for them to invest this profit in building more low cost Social Housing, so clearly Profit can be a good thing.

I'm sure you will choose to ignore the content of the above post because it doesn't fit your thinking.......;)