Help for my sister please

franklee

thesaint wrote:

The post on the landlordzone forum suggests witholding rent, the tenant does not have a right to withold rent and could find themselves in court and have to pay court costs as well as the missing rent.

No disrespect meant to you, I'm sure you are well meaning but the way to get the best out of a discussion forum is in getting to know which posters to believe. Now landlordzone is far better than this forum for the legalities of renting and on that forum the poster I quoted, Paul_f, is one of the most respected and experienced counting top legal letting professionals amongst his close contacts. Contrast that against your lack of experience that you've shown on this forum several times before and I think you'll see Paul_f's posts shouldn't be dismissed lightly. Also bear in mind he is discussing a case that's gone on longer (7 days without hot water) than our OP's has so far.

thesaint wrote:

There is no time limit to get these repairs done, so the landlord has not broken the law.

I think you have missed the point here. We are discussing if the landlord is in breach of the contract. Now the landlord is clearly contracted to do the repair and so there must be some timescale in which is is reasonable to carry out the repair otherwise the landlord could never do the repair and get away with it. So that just leaves us working out what a reasonable timescale is for the repair do be done before the landlord is in breach. Now clearly he can't be excepted to repair the boiler in a couple of hours, but clearly taking months isn't reasonable. So what do we think is reasonable? I'd say a week for an important repair like hot water. Paul_f is suggesting more like 48 hours. What do you think? Surely you can't really mean there is no limit to how long the landlord is allowed to take meaning the landlord failing to repair would never be in breach? In which case there would be no need for any landlord to do any repairs!

thesaint wrote:

Involving the environmental health will probably ensure that the tenant gets an eviction notice the next day, the tenant can go to court and try and get some compensation for the non-working boiler, but this is hit and miss.

So the choice for a tenant (with in this case young children) is either give in to what is effectively blackmail (don't complain or you'll get notice) or be prepared to stand their ground and be prepared to move. Well considering a tenant on an AST could be given notice anyway then option 2 gets my vote.

thesaint wrote:

The O.P. needs to be aware of the downfalls of taking the action suggested. Like many others have said, it would be best to move out?

I think the O.P. is already considering a move, post #24:

rach! wrote:

because she has messed them about so much today that they want to move anyway, so if she kicks em out they dont care

But nevertheless suggesting the OP's sister move rather shoots your previous point down as if they are prepared to move anyway then the threat of notice shouldn't prevent a complaint! Personally if a landlord has a bad track record, like it seems this one has, then I'd be prepared to complain, move and claim compensation in which case it's best to complain first. But again I don't think this particular hot water issue has gone on long enough to make a compensation claim worthwhile yet but then is it repaired yet?

thesaint

Didn't bother to read your post thoroughly because it became rude and condescending, but I shall say again.

It is not lawful to withold rent

There is no time limit set in housing law for repairs

If there is anything factually incorrect in this post or #50, please correct me.

franklee

I'll just take the main point as you are unwilling to read it all:

thesaint wrote:

There is no time limit set in housing law for repairs

So what is the specific relevance of that to this OP? The lack of a time limit in the legislation for a repair to the hot water simply isn't relevant to this issue. It is up to the landlord and tenant to negotiate or for the court to decide if it goes there. It does not mean the landlord can stall on repairs for ever, I repeat the portion of my last post as you didn't read it:

I think you have missed the point here. We are discussing if the landlord is in breach of the contract. Now the landlord is clearly contracted to do the repair and so there must be some timescale in which is is reasonable to carry out the repair otherwise the landlord could never do the repair and get away with it. So that just leaves us working out what a reasonable timescale is for the repair do be done before the landlord is in breach. Now clearly he can't be excepted to repair the boiler in a couple of hours, but clearly taking months isn't reasonable. So what do we think is reasonable? I'd say a week for an important repair like hot water. Paul_f is suggesting more like 48 hours. What do you think? Surely you can't really mean there is no limit to how long the landlord is allowed to take meaning the landlord failing to repair would never be in breach? In which case there would be no need for any landlord to do any repairs!

So why are you repeating something that isn't helpful and what exactly are the implications of what you are saying to the OP? You just need to confirm that at some point a landlord will be in breach if a repair to the hot water isn't done or are you denying that too?

thesaint

thesaint wrote:

Ask your sister to get three quotes for the work, then tell the landlady to get the work done within 7 days, then get the contractor with the lowest quote to do the work and take the landlady to court for the money.
In the time it takes to do this, her landlady will have probably done it anyway.

You may not like the advice you've been given but most of it is correct.
Witholding rent is a good strategy if she requires evicting.

Check the shelter website for advice if you don't like what you are hearing here.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-2916.cfm

This is the advice I gave 3 days ago.
Note, I gave advice but also stated that their maybe consequences to taking action that the landlady found not to her liking.

I even gave a link to shelter for more information.
I try where possible not to give advice without giving the pitfalls of following the advice I refer people to.

I will take it that I am not factually incorrect in the posts I stated.

clutton_2

thesaint - don't waste any more energy on this - she's not listening.

prudryden

Good advice Clutton!

Having given this considerable thought. I now agree with Frank in that the OPs sister should immediately stop paying the rent. She should cease any further dialogue with the landlady. She should refuse to allow entry to her flat, to include all workmen. If she allows entry, it could be constued as tantamount to an admission that she is now happy with the situation.

She certainly should bring charges of harassment by attempting to send all these workmen to her flat. In addition, the criminal nature of not providing all the insurance documents, to include building, contents, and liability as per her contract should invalidate the entire contract. She should demand all her rent money back as part compensation.

I think that the size of the award and the nature of the criminal activity would be beyond the scope of a county court and should, therefore, be filed in a magistrates court. Of course, this would be beyond the ability of even the best CAB lawyer, therefore, she may need to engage a professional city firm of lawyers. But the size of the potential damages, not to even mention, the punitive damages would more than pay for this ten times over. In fact, all her costs would probably be ordered against the defendent in any case.

Go for it Rach and thank us later!

rach!_3

i take it thats sarcasm??if it is, is there any need for it?? no!!!

franklee

thesaint wrote:

I will take it that I am not factually incorrect in the posts I stated.

The fact from you I take issue with is from post #50:

thesaint wrote:

There is no time limit to get these repairs done, so the landlord has not broken the law.

We agree that there is no time limit in the legislation to get these repairs done but why does it follow that the landlord has not broken the law?

The Landlord and Tenant Act and rach!'s contract state the landlord will keep in repair and proper working order the installation at the property for space heating and heating water.

So how does a lack of time limit to get repairs done mean the landlord has not breached this given the hot water is broken?

Can you explain if and when the landlord would be in breach over the hot water not working in your opinion?

I note that paul_f in the post I'd linked to says a tenant is entitled to hot water at ALL times, seems reasonable for something that must be KEPT in proper working order, although practically a reasonable time for repair should be allowed. (If something is kept in repair it isn't left broken so you could say the repair should be done immediately).

moofo

A simple trip to the CAB could well sort this problem out.
Have you tried them ?
From reading the whole of this thread ( I must be mad ) I still don't think Rach is any the wiser due to so many conflicting views.
Attacking her intelligence won't help either.
Go here Rach and read it thoroughly.
http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/home/tenancyrights/yourrightsasatenant

As a tenant, you have the right to adequate living facilities such as hot and cold water, heating, electricity, ventilation, toilet facilities and a drainage system. If the house you are in does not meet health and safety standards you may be able to take legal action.

Try your local Council for advice as well.
To be perfectly honest if you just keep ranting on at the Landlady all it will do is waste more of your sister's time.
Action is what is needed here for the children's sake.
Go to the Citizens advice Bureau and your local council.
Let us know how you get on.
Perhaps a letter or phone call from the council might just wake the landlady up a little.
P.S Try not to be aggressive as in the long run it doesn't get you anywhere.

Best of luck.

rach!_3

thank you moofo i see from all this that there are a few good people out there