PIP, and the shrinking of motability/HRM.

melbury

Is PIP going to replace ESA?

moose1982

melbury wrote: »

Is PIP going to replace ESA?

No, it will replace DLA and is still payable while in work.

Anubis_2

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

What happens if you walk with a stick, are taking morphine for the pain and can cover 50 meters with difficulty and discomfort, but you are unable to use a self-propelled wheelchair owing to the possibility of further damage to neck and back (on medical advice). So when necessary, you just have to rest and then push on, even though it means that the next few days are likely to be spent in bed with pay back?

I am probably missing something, but I can't see how that scenario is covered under the new criteria?

Then you would likely score points on not being able to self propell.

It is worth mentioning in the categories if more than one applies to you, you choose the one that is the most appropriate according to guidelines (this could change)

So, if you could never self propell then you would choose that over walking, especially if your walking was variable providing both were listed in the same question.

For variable conditions, you base it on 50 percent of the time abpnd over. For example, you may be able to dress yourself for some days and other days not. If you can dress yourself two days out of seven on average, then you tick that you cannot dress yourself, as you have to put down what applies more than 50 percent of the time.

rogerblack

Apologies - I've just found:
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-second-draft-assessment-criteria-note.pdf

4.10
The assessment considers a 12 month period and, in order to accurately capture fluctuations in ability within this timeframe, we proposed that an activity descriptor should apply where it reflected an individual’s ability for the ‘majority of the time’. This will ensure that the assessment accurately identifies individuals who are consistently least able to carry out the activities. In order to provide greater clarity on this approach, the assessment now considers the impact experienced on the ‘majority of days’ (more than 50 per cent) rather than the ‘majority of the time’. This has been included in the second draft regulations.
4.11
The accompanying notes highlight that if a descriptor applies during a 24-hour period, it should be considered as applying on that day. That day would then count towards meeting the threshold of more than 50 per cent of days for the relevant activity descriptor. However, we recognise that this approach might disadvantage individuals whose level of ability fluctuates over the period.
4.12
Therefore, when choosing descriptors, the following rules now apply:
•
If one descriptor in an activity applies on more than 50 per cent of the days in the period then that descriptor should be chosen.
•
As before, if more than one descriptor in an activity applies on more than 50 per cent of the days in the period, then the descriptor chosen should be the one which applies for the greatest proportion of the time.
•
Where one single descriptor in an activity is not satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days but a number of different descriptors in that activity, when added together, are satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days, the descriptor satisfied for the highest proportion of the time should be selected. For example, if descriptor ‘B’ is satisfied on 40 per cent of days and descriptor ‘C’ on an additional 30 per cent of days, the correct descriptor would be ‘B’.

Which I'd missed on first go through the document.
This means that a number of my responses above which assumed that the lowest scoring descriptor applied - as in ESA - is incorrect.
I think this may have been in an earlier proposal.
I'll re-edit in a bit.

diddyman_2

I think PIP is a great idea - Much more objective than DLA. And agree with uponahill about the won't walk/ can't walk brigade. I have inflamatory arthritis and get a lot of pain in my hips knees and feet - I would quite easily say "I don't want to hurt so I aint walking" but I choose to stay mobile and put up with the pain because I know it is better for me. Why should someone else with the same issues get a car paid for just because they WON'T walk! Yes there are some people who physically can't walk but these are really not very many.
At the moment I only get lower rate care despite wearing splints at night and needing help with them and needing help to dress under the new system I should get enhanced care. The new scheme measure actual ABILITY not peoples willingness to carry out such activities.
They are supposed to take into account a persons ability to do things repeatedly and safely too so fatigue and pain do come into it.

Parva

Very well said fedupconsumer.

Meanwhile, over in the 'Benefits and Tax Credits' forum...

diddyman wrote: »

I personally agree with PIP - DLA is far too subjective and just depends on how you fill in the form. I reckon I will probably do better out of PIP.

Ulterior motive much? I would give this troll a wide berth.

melbury

Are the only people totally opposed to PIP the ones who are on HRM and have Motability cars?

Surely weeding out the ones who shouldn't have this benefit is a good thing isn't it? The really genuine cases should not be affected at all.

Parva

melbury wrote: »

Are the only people totally opposed to PIP the ones who are on HRM and have Motability cars?

Surely weeding out the ones who shouldn't have this benefit is a good thing isn't it? The really genuine cases should not be affected at all.

I for one will not complain about those claiming incapacity benefits being weeded out, I don't think anybody will argue that the system has certainly been played very successfully by some. The problem with PIP is that it's not designed to weed those people out, it is geared to save the government a lot of money at the expense of many people currently claiming DLA that truly do need it and may find their payments reduced / stopped altogether.

uponahill

Anubis wrote: »

Then you would likely score points on not being able to self propell.

It is worth mentioning in the categories if more than one applies to you, you choose the one that is the most appropriate according to guidelines (this could change)

So, if you could never self propell then you would choose that over walking, especially if your walking was variable providing both were listed in the same question.

For variable conditions, you base it on 50 percent of the time abpnd over. For example, you may be able to dress yourself for some days and other days not. If you can dress yourself two days out of seven on average, then you tick that you cannot dress yourself, as you have to put down what applies more than 50 percent of the time.

How the **** are you going to be able to provide medical evidence of this?

They sure as hell won't accept your word for it!!!

atrixblue.-MFR-.

uponahill wrote: »

How the **** are you going to be able to provide medical evidence of this?

They sure as hell won't accept your word for it!!!

no but they will accept a social services report of a independant carers report or geting dressed with the aid of a carer this is why the question is asked, also, if you have evidence to back all up then it would give them reason to question a NO reply.