PIP, and the shrinking of motability/HRM.

rogerblack

PIP is due to be introduced over the next few years.

It replaces DLA, for most working age claimants.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-assessment-thresholds-and-consultation.pdf - is a outline of amongst other things the impact assessment.

There are now 1.04m claimants on HRM, this will drop to 760k.

Around quarter of motability cars are going back.

For those with High rate mobility /HR care - very few of them are affected - in fact slightly more will get HRM/HRC than now.

This leaves the bulk of the changes to fall on those getting low RC/ medium RC/no-care and HRM.

Of this group, almost 40% will lose their HRM.

It's not possible on the figures the government presents above to work out what the breakdown of those on HRM losing it is for those also getting LRC/MRC/no-care, as the table isn't adequate to work that out without making unreasonable assumptions.

For existing claims of DLA, reassessment starts in 2014, so people considering getting a motability car may want to consider it carefully, if now on MRC/LRC or no care.

The above figures are based on the current proposals, and the governments assessment of their impact.
They may be inaccurate (either way), or be reconsidered.

If you have a spare couple of hours, and are prepared for some quite dense reading - http://wearespartacus.org.uk/pip-consultation/ is worth a look.
This is an overview of the consultation process.

(The above notes about motability could be inaccurate, if for example only people with HRC+HRM use motability at the moment, then the number eligible will increase)

mardatha

Has anything been said re DLA and people above retirement age, do you know? And many thanks for this, it's been a worry for a lot of people.

rogerblack

mardatha wrote: »

Has anything been said re DLA and people above retirement age, do you know? And many thanks for this, it's been a worry for a lot of people.

There are no official plans to change entitlement over retirement age.
But noises are being made, so who knows.

Denny_Crane

Also, whilst no children under 16 will be reassessed, once they reach 16 they will be reassessed.
tye cost of the reassessment as a contract is £500 Million over seven years to remove 500,000 from the DLA.
The main ones (like me) who will lose out are those who can walk a very short distance without a wheelchair before the pain kicks in, these people, including Disabled servicemen under the war pensionserds side, will not acheive sufficient points to enable them to continue with their motability cars on the higher rate of PIP, due to teh inflexibility of the new assesment criteria.
We are not talking here about those who scam the system with bogus claims, but rather a large group of disabled who struggle to walk a short distance. They will bacome prisoners in their own homes just to save teh government some money, which they seem to be spending on their pet favourite consultant companies....

Anubis_2

For those with High rate mobility /HR care - very few of them are affected - in fact slightly more will get HRM/HRC than now.

Is this written or is it your own understanding from what you have been reading? To be honest, on face value, PIP seems a fairer way providing they apply the points as they should. I see problems arising between doctors reports and patient testimony as there is now, as I presume the doctors form used will have similar questions IE: can the patient cook? and in the majority of cases the doctor will not really know the answer.

rogerblack

Anubis wrote: »

Is this written or is it your own understanding from what you have been reading? To be honest, on face value, PIP seems a fairer way providing they apply the points as they should.

It's not really fairer.
The criteria are broadly similar, though it's explicitly points-based, which DLA was not.

I question if 40% of people not getting high-rate care, with high-rate mobility awards, really do not have severe mobility issues.

The above numbers are based on the above linked modelling of 900 cases, and the governments extrapolation of the changes.
Simply, there are 10K more people in the highest group for mobility/care of PIP than DLA. To clarify - this does not mean that everyone with HRC/HRM will get the highest awards under PIP, some may of course move down and lose entitlement, and some with lower DLA awards will move up.

The low-rate care going away will affect a _lot_ of people.

LadyMorticia

R.E. reassessment in 2014. My DLA is up for reassessment in 2013. Would I be reassessed for DLA or assessed for PIP?

Also, thanks for this post. I was really worried about the changes but you've made me alot calmer.:o

moose1982

My DLA is due June 2013 and if it's under the PIP rules, then I won't get anything for mobility because I can use crutches to get about. That is something I've accepted, disagree with, but accept.

On a slightly related note, I'm guessing they haven't decided if people on just the enhanced, or the standard as well, rate of mobility will be entitled to Motability? It was up in the air last time I heard. I have a feeling that most Motability cars will be either WAV's, or bigger cars because of the need to mainly carry around a wheelchair, would that be a fair assessment? Would that then bump up the Advance Payments by a fairly large amount?

Denny_Crane

moose1982 wrote: »

On a slightly related note, I'm guessing they haven't decided if people on just the enhanced, or the standard as well, rate of mobility will be entitled to Motability? It was up in the air last time I heard. I have a feeling that most Motability cars will be either WAV's, or bigger cars because of the need to mainly carry around a wheelchair, would that be a fair assessment? Would that then bump up the Advance Payments by a fairly large amount?

The answer from Motability is no according to their website
http://www.motabilitycarscheme.co.uk/main.cfm?type=CNI&ObjectId=2852

"While the plans have not yet been formally approved, it is expected that between 2013 and 2016, everyone aged 16 to 64 will be reassessed to see whether they are entitled to the new PIP benefit. The mobility component of PIP will be paid at two levels and recipients of the enhanced level will continue to be able to use this allowance in exchange for a car on the Motability Scheme, in much the same way as the current Higher Rate Mobility Component of Disability Living Allowance."

So, no higher rate PIP, no Motability. Only onmes who will get the Higher rate are those permanently in wheelchairs, everyone else lower rate or no rate regarding the Mobility component :mad:

LadyMorticia

Denny_Crane wrote: »

The answer from Motability is no according to their website
http://www.motabilitycarscheme.co.uk/main.cfm?type=CNI&ObjectId=2852

"While the plans have not yet been formally approved, it is expected that between 2013 and 2016, everyone aged 16 to 64 will be reassessed to see whether they are entitled to the new PIP benefit. The mobility component of PIP will be paid at two levels and recipients of the enhanced level will continue to be able to use this allowance in exchange for a car on the Motability Scheme, in much the same way as the current Higher Rate Mobility Component of Disability Living Allowance."

So, no higher rate PIP, no Motability. Only onmes who will get the Higher rate are those permanently in wheelchairs, everyone else lower rate or no rate regarding the Mobility component :mad:

So, does that mean they're going to be doing away with the "metre test" i.e. not being able to walk so many metres without discomfort and severe pain?

rogerblack

LadyMorticia wrote:

So, does that mean they're going to be doing away with the "metre test" i.e. not being able to walk so many metres without discomfort and severe pain?

No!
See below.

Denny_Crane wrote: »

So, no higher rate PIP, no Motability. Only ones who will get the Higher rate are those permanently in wheelchairs, everyone else lower rate or no rate regarding the Mobility component :mad:

My understanding of the descriptors.

If you have no mental problems, to get enhanced mobility you need to be unable to walk 50m without using a wheelchair.
If you have a stick, and can only walk 20m, for example.

I can find no references directly to pain in the regulations, which is concerning. I need to reread.


The key is the descriptor says 'without using a wheelchair' - there are no points scored specifically for using a wheelchair.

To get the enhanced mobility component, you need 12 points.

The bare descriptors are in principle going to be considerably moderated for some people if "their impairment affects their ability to perform a task on more than 50% of days".

If this proposed definition of when a descriptor applies, then it would make people whos condition varies throughout the day a lot more likely to qualify.

For example - I currently have a large number of bad days a week, perhaps up to over 50%, during which at some point in the day, I am unable to move 50m, without using a wheelchair propelled by someone else, or an electric wheelchair.

I can find no specific guidance that the claimant must in fact have a wheelchair, or use it.

The proposed descriptors are confused in many aspects.

I believe the intent is to reuse the 'virtual wheelchair' from the ESA tests, as this is the only way the descriptors make sense.

Otherwise someone who can walk with a stick 20m, say, gets no points.
If a virtual wheelchair is employed, they may get either 12 or 15 - depending on if they could in principle use a manual chair.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-second-draft-assessment-regulations.pdf page 15

As I understand the regulations - if most days you have times when you can't move 50m, possibly using aids, without using a wheelchair, you get 12 points.
If you can move only 50m unaided, and aids don't help you, you get 8 points.
(If you can move 51m with a stick, you get 4)

If you get 8 points, you then need to pick up 4 points from the other half of the mobility - the mental side.

'needs prompting for all journeys to avoid overwhelming distress' = 4...