PPI Reclaiming Discussion Part 5

[Deleted User]

Washout wrote: »

When I submitted a request for information under the DPA 1998 to Barclaycard, they responded with a single A4 sheet showing some particulars of the credit card (it was an Egg card I've had since 2003) and PPI was noted in the table of information.

This just means this is all the records they have. You really shoukd not be considering a complaint to the ICO unless you have any evidence that they somehow have more information they are not disclosing.

Washout wrote: »

I am therefore combining both Egg and Barclaycard complaints in respect of the credit card and of course submitting this as one complaint to the Ombudsman

You cannot combine two different complaints from two different lenders.
The PPI was sold by different people and different circumstances.

Washout wrote: »

I am writing a letter to Barclaycard to inform them of this action (and to cancel the policy of course) and the question is; does going to the ombudsman preclude Barclaycard from changing their minds

Once you have referred your complaint, the Bank will no longer communicate with you until the FOS adjudicate. You already have your "full and final " response from Barclays.

There is no point in writing to them to inform them you have gone to the Ombudsman as they will be notified in due course regardless.

Washout wrote: »

I am of course not considering proceedings until the Ombudsman makes their decision, merely checking the definition.

Going to court with this is, frankly, not ever a realistic option. PPI mis-selling is not a legal issue.
,

Washout wrote: »

On an unrelated complaint should I take a single line response to a DPA request from MBNA that no PPI was applied to that card as legitimate? Or should I take the Data Commissioner route with them also?

Once again, you cannot complain to the ICO unless you somehow have evidence that what they are telling you is false or inaccurate. Without evidence, any such complaint is a false starter.

Washout wrote: »

Apologies for the monster first post, but wanted to check as the sum in question for Barclaycard alone I estimate to be in the order of several 10's of thousands of £'s.

Money you'll never get by making unfounded complaints to the ICO or by trying to "combine" two separate complaints from two different lenders.


Expect to wait around eighteen months for the Ombudsman to deal with your complaint. The ICO will not accept your "complaint" at all unless you somehow have evidence to the contrary of what the bank(s) have told you.

Washout

Thanks for responding to my post and perhaps I can provide some clarity on a few points (hopefully the quote thing works OK):

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

This just means this is all the records they have. You really shoukd not be considering a complaint to the ICO unless you have any evidence that they somehow have more information they are not disclosing.

A single sheet of A4 with a table of account parameters does not to my mind disclose all the information Barclaycard have and unless they are contravening several different financial services regulations they should have at least provided details of all PPI premium sums, which they have been charging to the account on a monthly basis.
The table of information admits to applying PPI, but they do not disclose the policy number, so again they are either withholding information or maybe they are just banking the premiums without a policy actually being in place.

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

You cannot combine two different complaints from two different lenders.
The PPI was sold by different people and different circumstances.

Perhaps I was not clear enough in my post; the credit card was originally taken out in 2003 with Egg (now Canada Square Operations) and the account (and I now assume with all potential liabilities) was sold or transferred to Barclaycard in 2011. I am certainly not the only person on this forum that was a former customer of Egg and now Barclaycard and it would be interesting to know how they approached the situation if they were successful.
Predictably Canada Square Operations (Egg) have responded to my complaint saying the same thing i.e. "we sold your account to Barclaycard and therefore its their problem and not ours (or words to that effect)".
Just for clarity it would appear that Barclaycard continued the PPI and I did not have to sign a new credit agreement or go through an application with them nor did they "sell" me a new policy. If they did start a new PPI policy against the credit facility then it was without my knowledge, but of course without full disclosure I could not know.
So what should I do here? Submit one claim to Barclays for the entire term of the credit card or stick with the two original claims, bearing in mind that Canada Square Operations are refusing to deal with the complaint as Barclays now have the account.

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

Once you have referred your complaint, the Bank will no longer communicate with you until the FOS adjudicate. You already have your "full and final " response from Barclays.
There is no point in writing to them to inform them you have gone to the Ombudsman as they will be notified in due course regardless.

Understand and that's their prerogative. I will still be writing to them as the PPI policy needs to be cancelled

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

Going to court with this is, frankly, not ever a realistic option. PPI mis-selling is not a legal issue.
,

I was not implying that PPI mis-selling was a legal issue, but recovery of the sums due from a mis-sold policy is. I would also not be issuing court proceedings in any case as a Statutory Demand under the Insolvency Act 1986 does not require that a debt be proved in court, only that it be served on the directors of the company or its registered office if they are unobtainable.

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

Once again, you cannot complain to the ICO unless you somehow have evidence that what they are telling you is false or inaccurate. Without evidence, any such complaint is a false starter.

Again a single line letter stating that "Payment Protection Cover has never been applied to the above account; therefore no premiums have been charged" cannot be the only information MBNA hold on my account. They must at least have the credit agreement, statements etc. which is what the DPA request asks for, not just a statement about whether or not PPI was applied in response.

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

Money you'll never get by making unfounded complaints to the ICO or by trying to "combine" two separate complaints from two different lenders.

I don't think I can agree with this assessment, or the implications that I should drop the matter entirely, but thank you again for taking the time to respond to my post.

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

Expect to wait around eighteen months for the Ombudsman to deal with your complaint. The ICO will not accept your "complaint" at all unless you somehow have evidence to the contrary of what the bank(s) have told you.

Understood and unless the banks get to apply time limits for complaints (which I know they have been lobbying for) I personally do not care how long it takes.

[Deleted User]

Washout wrote: »

A single sheet of A4 with a table of account parameters does not to my mind disclose all the information Barclaycard have and unless they are contravening several different financial services regulations they should have at least provided details of all PPI premium sums, which they have been charging to the account on a monthly basis.

You cannot complain to the ICO that your SAR is incomplete unless you somehow have documentary evidence that they still hold the information you expect. Banks don't keep comprehensive records in the manner you describe and many destroy their information completely after six years.
You cannot complain to the ICO that you feel the SAR is incomplete "to your mind".

Washout wrote: »

Submit one claim to Barclays for the entire term of the credit card or stick with the two original claims

Stick with the two original complaints, but submit them both to the Ombudsman separately.

Washout wrote: »

Understand and that's their prerogative. I will still be writing to them as the PPI policy needs to be cancelled

You can certainly write to cancel, but absolutely futile informing them that you are going to the Ombudsman

Washout wrote: »

I was not implying that PPI mis-selling was a legal issue, but recovery of the sums due from a mis-sold policy is.

No, it isn't.

Washout wrote: »

a single line letter stating that "Payment Protection Cover has never been applied to the above account; therefore no premiums have been charged" cannot be the only information MBNA hold on my account.

Do you have documentary evidence of this accusation? Of course you don't. As I said above, many Banks destroy everything older than six years and they do not have to provide the credit agreements unless your account with them is still open. Full statements are not provided as part of a DSAR and are unlikely to be available older than six years even if you pay for them individually (expensive).
The only relatively successful complaints to the ICO I have seen reported are one's in which the Bank have failed to action SAR requests at all. The ICO cannot force the Bank to release information it no longer has (or which never existed at all in the case of no PPI being paid)

In addition, you're going to have to accept that this "complaint" is a non-starter unless you have evidence of paying PPI from your own archive.

Washout wrote: »

the implications that I should drop the matter entirely,

I never implied this at all for your Barclays complaint, I simply said you shouldn't be complaining to the ICO in the circumstances you describe. If you do complain to ICO, expect them to reply in a similar vein to my response.

Washout wrote: »

Understood and unless the banks get to apply time limits for complaints (which I know they have been lobbying for) I personally do not care how long it takes.

Your complaint is already on record, it is not out-of-time, it's the other assumptions you have made which I took issue with.

However, If you continue trying to obtain extra SAR information, then do be aware that you only have six months in which to refer the original complaint to the Ombudsman.

NewcastlePaul

Massive cheque from Barclays today for over £8k.
Thing that surprises me is that i owe them over £10k.

They haven't taken the amount off the outstanding balance just wrote

"You're outstanding debt balance is £10,741.92. Please contunue to pay the monthly arrangement you have agreed with our Branch Recovery Unit to repay this debt.

If you would like to use this refund to clear some of your outstanding debt please discuss this with the agency dealing with your debt.

Would it be too cheeky to contact them and offer the 8k as F and F settlement and see if they accept ????

gavin_77345

Hi

I was sold PPI without asking for it on an egg credit card account. This was some time ago and I had cancelled the account in 2010.
I can see the account in my credit report but it does not show the account number.
Egg got taken over by the Yorkshire Building society some years ago... so they are not directly contactable. Any ideas how I can get my account details?

Thanks

[Deleted User]

NewcastlePaul wrote: »

Would it be too cheeky to contact them and offer the 8k as F and F settlement and see if they accept ????

Better not to post duplicate posts on the forum, there aren't that many of us here prepared to respond and it's irritating to see the same post on other threads.
Answered already here;
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64753549#Comment_64753549

NewcastlePaul

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

Better not to post duplicate posts on the forum, there aren't that many of us here prepared to respond and it's irritating to see the same post on other threads.
Answered already here;
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64753549#Comment_64753549

Ah right.
Apologies for that.
Didn't realise that there was a main thread when I posted for the first time. Will keep it to my individual thread.

Thank you for response. Poor form by me. Taken on board though

Washout

gavin_77345 wrote: »

Hi

I was sold PPI without asking for it on an egg credit card account. This was some time ago and I had cancelled the account in 2010.
I can see the account in my credit report but it does not show the account number.
Egg got taken over by the Yorkshire Building society some years ago... so they are not directly contactable. Any ideas how I can get my account details?

Thanks

For Egg accounts you need to contact:

Canada Square Operations
PO Box 4903
Worthing
BN99 3AR

From their letterhead I think they are something to do with Citibank now, but that's where you go for old Egg accounts.

They did try and stall me over change of address (twice) but once I submitted a SAR (proof of address twice) and £10 they sent me all the paperwork they had on the accounts I had with them, which was over 4 inches thick. So unlike other lenders their responses to SAR are comprehensive.


Good luck and hope that helps.

[Deleted User]

Washout wrote: »

So unlike other lenders their responses to SAR are comprehensive.

As said already in response your other posts on this subject, a SAR will only ever result in you receiving information the Bank have kept on file for you. The more they have kept, the more you will receive. It's possible to receive a SAR with no information at all, if the Bank have deleted records for old accounts.

I wonder how much of the Egg paperwork (all four inches of it) were actually any use to you? I expect the vast majority of it was just a waste of paper.

Washout

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

As said already in response your other posts on this subject, a SAR will only ever result in you receiving information the Bank have kept on file for you. The more they have kept, the more you will receive. It's possible to receive a SAR with no information at all, if the Bank have deleted records for old accounts.

I wonder how much of the Egg paperwork (all four inches of it) were actually any use to you? I expect the vast majority of it was just a waste of paper.

Very useful, as the majority of it was statements going back to the beginning of the account detailing all PPI premiums paid and the interest charged, so I have at least totalled up the full amount of the premiums taken (interest was also being charged on those premiums). They also delivered 2 loan agreements (separate from the credit card) showing the PPI sums on, but no other information about the PPI (suitability, optional statement etc.), but strangely no original credit card agreement. What I did find interesting is that the PPI applied was on what looks to be a section from an underwriters report, which whilst not proof, implies that they were maybe recommended that PPI was to be applied by the underwriters.

Oh and they also had records of all contacts with me since I applied for the credit card and none are related to PPI suitability at the point of sale.

So not waste paper.

I have also just had a letter from Canada Square Operations stating they have passed the complaint I made to them directly, over to Barclaycard, so that in essence means Barclays now have both complaints for both periods on the account.

I have had another letter today (success), but that belongs in another thread.