Breeders don't care about dogs, but only about 'winning'

Errata

Although one of the JRT's I had could howl like a wolf, he certainly bore no resemblance to one. And no, he wasn't one of those jobbies with Queen Anne legs.

SnowyOwl_2

This story really needs to get to the masses - hopefully it will be repeated on BBC1 in the future. Puppy season is about to get started, so with luck it will make people think twice before they spend hundreds on a cute little dog that will end up breaking their heart.

I was glad that Pedigree stopped sponsoring Crufts and that the beeb stopped broadcasting from Crufts (though stupid C5 have since taken up the reins).

It horrifies me that similar problems will be created in cats - there are already "Munchkins" which are bred to have extra short legs, bald cats, and of course cats whose noses are so deformed they have trouble breathing.

And just where is the RSPCA in all of this anyway?

cepheus

At the local meeting in the park one woman has an interesting mongrel: a bit of Spanish Mastiff, Rottweiler and some other obscure breed. You might expect it to look weird. It actually looks like an Alsatian and is the handsomest, cleverest and one of the fittest dogs there.

cepheus

Person_one wrote: »

Do you have links for any of these studies? I'm no geneticist but even I know that its not as simple as 'good copies' of genes and 'bad genetics'.

Careful crossing of pedigrees is indeed the answer to the lack of genetic diversity they are suffering from at the moment, but randomly crossing two unhealthy pedigrees won't produce a healthy dog by magic!

Also, if you think a border terrier looks like a wolf I'm not sure what kind of odd wolves you've seen...

Examine the links in this wiki article (you need to go to the wiki itself the links won't work when copied here). Also read the start of the section for the genetic reason. The best results are obtain from responsible crossbreeders which don't use parents with an ancestory of known medical problems.

Several studies have shown that mixed-breed dogs have a health advantage. A German study finds that "Mongrels require less veterinary treatment".[11] Studies in Sweden have found that "Mongrel dogs are less prone to many diseases than the average purebred dog"[12] and, referring to death rates, “Mongrels were consistently in the low risk category”.[13] Data from Denmark also suggest that mixed breeds have higher longevity on average compared to purebreeds. [14] A British study showed similar results but a few breeds (notably Jack Russell Terrier, Miniature Poodles and Whippets) lived longer than mixed breeds.[15]

In one landmark study,URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"][COLOR=#0066cc]citation needed[/COLOR][/URL the effect of breed on longevity in the pet dog was analyzed using mortality data from 23,535 pet dogs. The data was obtained from North American veterinary teaching hospitals. The median age at death was determined for pure and mixed breed dogs of different body weights. Within each body weight category, the median age at death was lower for pure breed dogs compared with mixed breed dogs. The median age at death was "8.5 years for all mixed breed dogs, and 6.7 years for all pure breed dogs" in the study.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-breed_dog#Health

lostinrates

Some breeders really do care about health. Many of these are those who have long standing showing and judging careers. Some breeders import stud dogs from around the world to enhance breed genetic diveristy, and some breeds are pushing the artificial insemination line...which WHEN USED PROPERLY can reduce close crossing. When poorly used though it has terrible, terrible effects.....imagine every breeder could used the dog that one breed class at crufts.....a whole generation from one dog.


We have here a girl who is a beautiful example of type, absolutely stunning with amazing movement. She is here not showing and breeding, because she is from a line found to have a genetic issue. Its true there is nothing to stop me showing her, nothoing at all but my laziness, but her breeder, an internationally respected judge, believes it is bad for the breed and has been winding down her previously successful line becuase problems came up. The breed society, also puts hundred of thousnads of pounds into research of a condition that appeared inthe breed in the late eighties and nineties, and the breed together have worked to weed out the lines with those issues.

all the problems that have come up have not been swept under the carpet which has taken huge guts from the breeders, who are big names in group not just breed.


Edit: fwiw i am a bit of an odd person in out in that i would like to see permitted outcrosses to some approved breeds (e g breeds behind the original breeding of the breed) and part bred registers kept, as we do for horses.


To tar all breeders with the same brush alienates them and honestly it is my opinion risks making the issue worse not better, but i agree that kennel club should be imposing greater restrictions, and we should accept some breeds were a loveable but unethical development.

Person_one

cepheus wrote: »

Examine the links in this wiki article (you need to go to the wiki itself the links won't work when copied here). Also read the start of the section for the genetic reason. The best results are obtain from responsible crossbreeders which don't use parents with an ancestory of known medical problems.

Several studies have shown that mixed-breed dogs have a health advantage. A German study finds that "Mongrels require less veterinary treatment".[11] Studies in Sweden have found that "Mongrel dogs are less prone to many diseases than the average purebred dog"[12] and, referring to death rates, “Mongrels were consistently in the low risk category”.[13] Data from Denmark also suggest that mixed breeds have higher longevity on average compared to purebreeds. [14] A British study showed similar results but a few breeds (notably Jack Russell Terrier, Miniature Poodles and Whippets) lived longer than mixed breeds.[15]

In one landmark study,URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"][COLOR=#0066cc]citation needed[/COLOR][/URL the effect of breed on longevity in the pet dog was analyzed using mortality data from 23,535 pet dogs. The data was obtained from North American veterinary teaching hospitals. The median age at death was determined for pure and mixed breed dogs of different body weights. Within each body weight category, the median age at death was lower for pure breed dogs compared with mixed breed dogs. The median age at death was "8.5 years for all mixed breed dogs, and 6.7 years for all pure breed dogs" in the study.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-breed_dog#Health

Oh I understand that true mongrels are generally healthier, but snowman was saying that any crossbreed, even between two unhealthy pedigrees, is automatically healthy. I suppose they've just got the wrong end of the right stick but that kind of misunderstanding will just fuel puppy farmers breeding 'designer' crossbreeds with no regard for welfare.

Sezzler

the rest of the general public need educating as well. While there is a demand for pugs and other breeds that suffer from these "desired" abnormalities then people will just carry on breading !!! SIMPLES!!

cepheus

Person_one wrote: »

Oh I understand that true mongrels are generally healthier, but snowman was saying that any crossbreed, even between two unhealthy pedigrees, is automatically healthy. I suppose they've just got the wrong end of the right stick but that kind of misunderstanding will just fuel puppy farmers breeding 'designer' crossbreeds with no regard for welfare.

No he wasn't from your own quote of his, my emphasis

With a cross breed you are more likely to have a good copy of any relevant gene and bad genetics are less likely to happen. You can get a bad 'un but generally cross breeds are healthier.

cepheus

How about arranging a petition.

The simplest solution would be have a publicly available database of veterinary records for dogs so the ancestry of pups could be checked. Presumably those with gaps in the record would be worth far less, and those with older female dogs with problems have nothing to lose from this system.

It isn't foolproof since unscrupulous owners might try to use false ancestry, but it would make the industry far more transparent.

hotcookie101

Whilst I agree crossbreeds are generally healthier, we are seeing a LOT of designer pups-labradoodles, golden doodles, puggles, springadors cockapoos etc, which are being bred from pedigree parents with NO health checks, often these dogs may have hip or skin problems already, but people think that because they paid £600 for a pedigree lab they should be breeding from it! Which is obviously not the case.
My heart often sinks when I get a springador in for 1st vacc, and it is already cowering away, and you know both parents are on the nervous, scared side of the lab or springer personality rather than the happy friendly dogs you want.
Personally, if I was going to pay money for a dog-I would buy from a decent, responsible breeder, who health checks (and has done, back through the years, and researches the stud dog and their line also) than a designer cross breed, with no health checks on parents/grandparents etc-where the owners are breeding to get the money with no thought to the continuing health of the pups.