Work for benefits?

Graham_Devon

They confirmed that the study into participant outcomes only looked into whether the participants continued to claim working age benefits, and did not contain information on whether or not these particpants had moved into work.

So you assume they have come off benefits, not got a job and are living on nothing?

Come on now.

Even if it's got 33% of those into education, that in itself is a good thing as obviously they have taken on the workplace and decided to train to better themselves.

Fella

shortchanged wrote: »

Look I have a perfectly good understanding that companies need to make profits in order to survive and thrive.

My point being is why do these big companies feel the need to resort to issues like giving people 'work experience' for little or no pay. I don't buy it for a minute that they are doing it for the good of the nation, it is nothing more than self interest so they can avoid paying someone a half decent wage for a days work.

Also don't forget that these great companies that you obviously feel the need to defend have huge numbers of staff that probably receive quite large state top ups to their wages in order to give them some form of a living wage.

Although my post probably seemed directed at you, it was really a comment on that viewpoint per se, since it's trotted out increasingly these days.

With regards your next bit I'm far from convinced these big companies do feel the need to give people work experience. My understanding was that the Govt had done it's best to lean on them to take part in various schemes & what we're seeing is something of a backlash against that. Hardly surprising since even the current Govt (let alone the opposition) has the courage of it's own convictions enough to actually defend big business just now. So why should big business help out with Govt schemes?

Re defending these great companies, it's not so much that I feel the need to, as that it's patent common sense that we all should be. We live in a capitalist society & actually even among the currently skint I don't meet too many people who wish we lived in a communist one. And there's nothing stopping any of us migrating. So since we're all choosing to live in a capitalist society it's pretty dumb to be slagging off the institutions that depends upon on & crying foul when they suceed in their objectives.

I listened to a BBC radio phone-in the other day where there were instances of the actual same caller simultanously slagging off both the banks (for requiring taxpayer bailouts) and the power companies (for making profits). It's intriguing to wonder exactly what kind of balance sheet would please such a moron. A horribly failed business requiring taxpayer bailout had them almost foaming at the mouth with rage. Simultaneously, a very successful energy business, boosting income to the economy in several different ways, had him equally livid.

If this was just one, random, numbskull, it would be no big deal. Unfortunately as I said before, it's an increasingly prevalent attitude, led by Labour MPs (not to mention Liberal, and, incredibly, even some Tory MPs) etc.

jamespir

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If they completed their time, it shows willingness.

no its means they dont want to lose their money and end upon the streets

Fella

jamespir wrote: »

no its means they dont want to lose their money and end upon the streets

Have you run a company & employed people jamespir? (genuine question?)

I have & I can assure you that Graham_Devon is correct, we would have taken on people who showed willing every time in preference to people who just claimed their benefits & whined about how hard it was to get a job. People need to wake up to the fact that employers aren't idiots & it's an employer's market. The only person who's going to get you a job is you.

If you don't like that, form your own company & set the rules the way you prefer.

jamespir

Fella wrote: »

Have you run a company & employed people jamespir? (genuine question?)

I have & I can assure you that Graham_Devon is correct, we would have taken on people who showed willing every time in preference to people who just claimed their benefits & whined about how hard it was to get a job. People need to wake up to the fact that employers aren't idiots & it's an employer's market. The only person who's going to get you a job is you.

If you don't like that, form your own company & set the rules the way you prefer.

i have and i wouldnt exploit people to gain profit

Fella

jamespir wrote: »

i have and i wouldnt exploit people to gain profit

Neither did or would I but that emotive one-liner is irrelevant to what we're discussing.

Shakethedisease

Graham_Devon wrote: »

So you assume they have come off benefits, not got a job and are living on nothing?

Come on now.

Even if it's got 33% of those into education, that in itself is a good thing as obviously they have taken on the workplace and decided to train to better themselves.

You must've missed the part about those setting up New Jobseekers claims also being included in those figures. Also bear in mind that the 66% figures above are based on previous 'back to work' schemes ( not the current one ) where the employment market was probably markedly better than it is out there now.

You have to ask yourself why they didn't include the figures for those who ARE actually finding paid work afterwards though, on the current shemes don't you ? Rather than using a broad paintbrush to say that they're all off benefits... ( even if it is just waiting to set up a new claim that is ).

If it's so successful that half are going into real, paid employment.. then why don't they just say so along with the stats to back it up ? It would silence a lot of the current critisisms levelled at the schemes... But they haven't have they ?

It all sounds like a lot of 'spin' to me. No real figs to back up this 46% with. I certainly would welcome them if those stats were true.. but suspect not. Anyway, isn't the whole point of 'work experience' designed to get people back into work ? Whats the point then of using figures based on those who 'come off benefits' instead ? There could be a myriad of reasons for that.

So until the DWP extend and develop their research into the Work Experience scheme outcomes, the Prime Minister does not seem to have an adequate basis to make the claims he did.

discoass

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Sorry but that's wrong. You should dig a little deeper into that perhaps before just blithely parrotting government figures..

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/benefits_work_experience_scheme_participant_outcomes-3340

Now you`ve gone and done it..the fullfact website is going to melt some of this forums members brains

Graham_Devon

Burger King (where people worked in the offices) the latest to pull out, citing as their reason:

"Given the recent concerns expressed by the public we have decided to no longer have any involvement in the programme," it said in a statement.

The government have stated those campaigning against this should think very carefully about their actions. People need to be able to show experience and willingness to employers, and this gives them that chance.

discoass

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Burger King (where people worked in the offices) the latest to pull out, citing as their reason:

The government have stated those campaigning against this should think very carefully about their actions. People need to be able to show experience and willingness to work for free to employers, and this gives them that chance.

fixed it for you :cool: