Work for benefits?

Graham_Devon

discoass wrote: »

fixed it for you :cool:

Your fix makes no difference.

Let's be honest, this is all about having to do something. It matters little whether it's paid or not.

If this was done at NMW for those few weeks, people would be suggesting that these are not all NMW jobs and that employers are taking advantage.

We'd be going down the route of forced work if it was NMW and how this effects human rights. Infact, thats the route this started going down before it was thrown out. The human rights route. Since then it's changed to being offended in another way.

This has little to do with whether the employer is paying or not. It's 25-30 hours per week, of which JSA will more than cover in a year for those 2 months. So this argument about being paid or not falls flat on it's face...just people keep saying it over and over again with little answer to any debate. Lots of people get paid a salary over a year instead of hourly pay. This is really no different.

I don't see anyone up in arms about travel reps getting paid below minimum wage. I don't see anyone complaining thousands of self employed people probably earn below minimum wage lots of the time.

This is about getting people to do something, and that's the main issue. The issue would still be there even if NMW was being paid. Let's not pretend otherwise.

discoass

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Your fix makes no difference.


This has little to do with whether the employer is paying or not. It's 25-30 hours per week, of which JSA will more than cover in a year for those 2 months. So this argument about being paid or not falls flat on it's face...just people keep saying it over and over again with little answer to any debate. Lots of people get paid a salary over a year instead of hourly pay. This is really no different.

.

Firstly, people who go on these schemes maybe young/out of work (for more than six months a year etc )have at some point in their life payed or are going to pay tax whether it be PAYE or otherwise to pay for their JSA.

Secondly, the moment one of these "work experience" people pick up a brush/mop a floor /stack a shelf then that is taking away a job .

Pay them whilst they are there for the hours they have worked at NMW .

Going by your argument i could say I want all the tax i`ve paid towards my safety net if anything happened seen as I have`nt claimed JSA
ever and if i did need to claim it you would make me work for it so give me it back.

Graham_Devon

discoass wrote: »

Firstly, people who go on these schemes maybe young/out of work (for more than six months a year etc )have at some point in their life payed or are going to pay tax whether it be PAYE or otherwise to pay for their JSA.

How do you know?

Secondly, the moment one of these "work experience" people pick up a brush/mop a floor /stack a shelf then that is taking away a job .

You sure? Already been discussed.

Pay them whilst they are there for the hours they have worked at NMW .

And you'd not just go straight to what you have done above? Outraged that it's taken away a job?

Going by your argument i could say I want all the tax i`ve paid towards my safety net if anything happened seen as I have`nt claimed JSA
ever and if i did need to claim it you would make me work for it so give me it back.

I don't know how. It's not even relevant to anything I said. That appears to be YOUR argument. See above where you have suggested people will pay back their JSA as if we all have some type of pot.

discoass

Graham_Devon wrote: »

How do you know?
.



I don't know how. It's not even relevant to anything I said. That appears to be YOUR argument. See above where you have suggested people will pay back their JSA as if we all have some type of pot.

Because we all pay tax directly/indirectly

we all pay into a pot which gives us this peace of mind if anything happens ,you saying that having been given a years worth of JSA its only fair you work two months free for it, well i`ve already paid it thanks in one way or another via my tax
(I dont mean "I" as in me)

Graham_Devon

discoass wrote: »

Because we all pay tax directly/indirectly

we all pay into a pot which gives us this peace of mind if anything happens ,you saying that having been given a years worth of JSA its only fair you work two months free for it, well i`ve already paid it thanks in one way or another via my tax
(I dont mean "I" as in me)

LOL.

Take all the tax you have paid, and then deduct all the services you have used and all those you plan to use (pension, NHS etc), including education. We'll see if your in the black.

What a ridiculous argument. I might feel like a gap year. You lot can pay for it.

discoass

Graham_Devon wrote: »

LOL.

Take all the tax you have paid, and then deduct all the services you have used and all those you plan to use (pension, NHS etc), including education. We'll see if your in the black.

What a ridiculous argument. I might feel like a gap year. You lot can pay for it.

maybe, maybe not. I pay tax I expect to get JSA or anything else I`m entitled to if I need it else whats the point.

Jimmy_31

discoass wrote: »

maybe, maybe not. I pay tax I expect to get JSA or anything else I`m entitled to if I need it else whats the point.

Same way of thinking here.

I am now banned from the benefit system as i have my savings for a house sat in the bank.

I know plenty of people who are self employed in the construction industry who dont recieve any benefits of any kind when they are out of work for weeks at a time. These people have little or no savings, but still they do not recieve a penny.

When one of these people end up out of work long term and are asked to work for their benefits i wouldnt be surprised if it ended in a siege.

I have seen plenty of young lads over the years who have been put on some scheme or other to gain experience in the construction industry. In the past none of these lads got taught anything in the trade they were pursuing and were just used as cheap labour and then they would be laid off for the next lot to come in.

Things have changed a bit now though over the last year or so, certain trades are being dumbed down and new "apprentices" are taught one single aspect of a trade and once they can do the job to a reasonable standard and speed, the person who taught them will be laid off and the "apprentice" will be given their job and be paid a lot less than half of what the job should pay.

It wouldnt surprise me if people who work for the companys in the workfare scheme start losing their jobs to the people who were forced to work for their benefits.

discoass

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

It wouldnt surprise me if people who work for the companys in the workfare scheme start losing their jobs to the people who were forced to work for their benefits.

and here lies the problem:cool:

oldvicar

discoass wrote: »

maybe, maybe not. I pay tax I expect to get JSA or anything else I`m entitled to if I need it else whats the point.

Nobody getting Contribution-Based JSA (i.e. those who have paid in via the NI scheme) is being offered these work-experience opportunities. They are reserved for those who have not contributed, at least not recently.

snid

Nobody who is trying to survive on JSA is having a good time at our expense! :mad: