Nursing home dilemma - when Mum moves is my brother homeless?

insiderthon

mad990diver
Sorry to hear about your situation.
You ask 'What are his rights? Are there other ways we should be looking to fund her care'
Yes there are. There is something called NHS Continuing Health Care (CHC).
The topic of CHC is widely debated and securing funding can be a complicated one to say the least and can often be a bit of a post code lottery. 80% of the people currently in care homes are there because they have a primary healthcare need and as such should be entitled to FREE NHS CHC.
The first 12 weeks are free, whilst it is established whether your mother is eligible for CHC (under the NHS Framework) where she should be scored in 11 domains.

The very fact that your mother has reached this stage she is now entitled to full consideration for eligibility for NHS Continuing Health Care.

Feel free to PM if you wish to.

John_Pierpoint

missile wrote: »

You are correct, but there are some dreadful care homes. If it were me or mine, having such a significant sum available in investment and property I would be trying to negotiate the best possible care regarless of the cost.

Been round many care homes recently?

It might well differ by where in the country you live, but I cannot think of many where the staff actually appeared to be delighted by the prospect of another paying guest.

You also give me the impression of knowing where you are and what day of the week it is - you might be able to recognise your relatives too.

It is "Catch 22" - If I ask my relatives for a one way ticket to Switzerland I am obvious too compos mentis to need to go.

There is a school of thought that the carer should go along with the demented person's fantasies as this causes them less distress.

missile

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John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Been round many care homes recently? yes

It might well differ by where in the country you live, but I cannot think of many where the staff actually appeared to be delighted by the prospect of another paying guest. why is that relevant?

You also give me the impression of knowing where you are and what day of the week it is - you might be able to recognise your relatives too. OP said the lady was "bright as a button"

It is "Catch 22" - If I ask my relatives for a one way ticket to Switzerland I am obvious too compos mentis to need to go.
she does not have dementia
There is a school of thought that the carer should go along with the demented person's fantasies as this causes them less distress. she does not have dementia

John_Pierpoint

You are right, I had forgotten she was still "as bright as a button", despite the stroke, in which case in her position, I would want to invest in staying in my own home. The costs of paying someone to live in are not that much different from those of a care home though here again it depends on where you live. Unfortunately the bureaucracy in which we live can mean that what the client pays and what the carer gets can be radically different. Legislation about self employment versus minimum wage makes any sort of private arrangement between two people virtually impossible.
But the other posters who say that the old lady should speak for herself are right.

Hospitals like care homes as this absolves them from responsibility. No nightmare about an elderly person falling off their stair lift.
"A few weeks" is not long enough to rehabilitate someone after a stroke.
What attempts have been made to rehabilitate a young 77 year old and what progress has been made? What is the situation as far as in-continence goes? I have practical experience of improvements in mobility, given physiotherapy and patient determination; though incontinence was not curable.
The happiness of the elderly person is more important than ticking the facilities and safety boxes.

I've been round a really expensive care home, if you could afford it, you really could not fault it in terms of box ticking . But in reality the majority of inmates were confined to their rooms by their disabilities or perhaps their own antisocial tenancies, those who had made it to the common room were having a good winge about their hollow existence.

In terms of cash this lady has an income from investments of 250K (probably not that impressive in an economy with a base rate of 0.5% and an old person's inflation rate of at least 5%) and a half million pound house plus an (interest free?) loan of 240K. (What sort of trust is it? Does it have any sort of interest or charge over the house? These sums suggest an arrangement designed to fall within the transferable spouse exemption for IHT?) Methinks that the trust probably has a few generations of life still in it, if there are any potential beneficiaries under the age of 18 ??? Will the trust make further loans?
So some extra cash will need to be raised from somewhere, if brother/son cannot manage a stroke victim. A stroke victim, of this quality, is most unlikely to qualify for continuing care from the NHS budget.
So it is time to draw up a budget of time and money for care both in a home and at home and make some hard decisions.

margaretclare

The one where she is now at first sight doesn't appear suitable as most of the residents have dementia so not much conversation or company for her.

I completely agree with John Pierpoint. This lady is 77. I am 76. I tend to look at many of these questions from the point of view 'would I like it if this was happening to me?' Possibly it's more difficult for a younger generation to see it from this point of view, but if this happened to me and I was stuck into a place where I was among people with dementia, without so much as a by-your-leave or with-your-permission, decisions all made FOR me and not BY me, I would be screaming the place down: 'Get me out of here!' And I'd be then in the position of that BBC presenter I was reading about yesterday, or rather that of her Dad, who was 'chemically coshed' to keep him quiet.

John, I like your description of a 'young 77'. Thank you! You're another person like my young GP, who recently told me that '76 is still young'. Some of us DO still retain youthfulness 'in our heads' even if not in our bodies. Yes, I know this doesn't happen to everybody. I've recently met up with old friends from years ago - one has given up driving for no good reason that I could see, and the other refuses to have anything to do with computers because she thinks it's all beyond her, and she has 2:1 BSc(Hons) so very far from stupid.

I agree with all that you say above.

missile

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

You are right, I had forgotten she was still "as bright as a button", despite the stroke, in which case in her position, I would want to invest in staying in my own home. The costs of paying someone to live in are not that much different from those of a care home though here again it depends on where you live. Unfortunately the bureaucracy in which we live can mean that what the client pays and what the carer gets can be radically different. Legislation about self employment versus minimum wage makes any sort of private arrangement between two people virtually impossible..

Thanks. :A

My own mother will be a very sprightly 90 this year and I am pleased to report she lives a very active independent life.:T On a.n.other post I said live in carer(s) would be my first choice option if and when she is not able.

If the OPs mother only requires practical help then it should not be too difficult to arrange. If she requires nursing care this should not be impossible either. I have first hand knowledge regarding the obscene mark up charged by agencies and I would try to employ the carer direct.

My niece is a fully qualified nurse. On completion of her degree she could not get a job with NHS. The only job she could find was in a care home.

Archergirl

Another vote for home care, could you employ a person (or 2) direct to help her in the home? Maybe just for a few hours a day,helping to get her up and back to bed maybe? Could your sister in law be a carer and get carers allowance?