Nursing home dilemma - when Mum moves is my brother homeless?

xylophone

With regard to the money owed to the Trust, it is likely that the late father's will, (either directly or through Deed of Variation) placed a certain sum of money into trust, quite possibly the whole of the £240,000) - this money was lent to one of the beneficiaries of the Trust, quite probably interest free but possibly with an RPI link on repayment. The Trustees would be at liberty to call in the loan according to whatever terms were agreed at the outset, on sale of the house, on death of the beneficiary, at any time etc.

What is certain is that the sum involved is a debt, and would have to be repaid according to those terms.

alanq

BBC Radio 5 Live - Five Live Investigates
Tomorrow 21:00. "How local authorities are clamping down on families who avoid paying care home fees."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tl99q

I don't know if the above will clarify what is and is not acceptable or is purely about chasing fraudsters. It may be worth a listen in case it contains anything useful.

Biggles

alanq wrote: »

BBC Radio 5 Live - Five Live Investigates
Tomorrow 21:00. "How local authorities are clamping down on families who avoid paying care home fees."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tl99q

I don't know if the above will clarify what is and is not acceptable or is purely about chasing fraudsters. It may be worth a listen in case it contains anything useful.

Interestingly, and not unusually for the BBC News website, the article about the same programme tells how local authorities are failing to clamp down!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17147047

John_Pierpoint

alanq wrote: »

BBC Radio 5 Live - Five Live Investigates
Tomorrow 21:00. "How local authorities are clamping down on families who avoid paying care home fees."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tl99q

I don't know if the above will clarify what is and is not acceptable or is purely about chasing fraudsters. It may be worth a listen in case it contains anything useful.

More discussion here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/51366121#Comment_51366121

John_Pierpoint

Cranny44 wrote: »

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS38_Treatment_of_property_in_the_mean_test_for_permanent_care_home_provision_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS10Paying_for_permanent_residential_care_fcs.pdf.pdf?dtrk=true


The above are leaflets provided by Age UK and may cover most of your queries.

I am not sure why you are getting the first 6 weeks free in a care home??? I am not aware of this happening in my area so is it a local thing to your PCT? The only 6 weeks we give here is for a client in their own home who has rehab potential - not provided for someone in a care home.

The problem is people use the same terminology but mean totally different things so you should check this out.
But before you even get to the problem of the property you would need to provide some evidence regarding her investments and why these belong to a trust and not her etc. as The first part of the financial assessment asks do you have over the capital limit £23,250 - if yes then full cost and the property is not in the equasion.

But if she has £250K and owes £240K does she only have £10K in assets, then the property would need to be considered but as your brother has been there caring for her for 8 years and moved etc your local authority have the power to give a discretionary disregard on the property.
Likewise if she only had £10K and they chose to include the property she wouldnt be forced to sell it, the accrued debt would just be payable from her estate at the end, therefore your brother could continue to live there no problem.

Also depending on the investment some may be disregarded - ie Life Assured bonds.

When someone is forced into residential care, they tend to only last a couple of years or so on average. This means that the brother should be making serious plans for his future now.
I think the idea is that the aged person does not involve her/his family in arranging the care home but goes to the council - in effect saying "I cannot cope, find me a place of safety to care for me".
This should have two results that are "cheaper" than the family route:
The local authority pay the first 6 weeks.
The local authority can negotiate a much cheaper rate than the relatives can.

missile

The local authority can negotiate a much cheaper rate than the relatives can.

You are correct, but there are some dreadful care homes. If it were me or mine, having such a significant sum available in investment and property I would be trying to negotiate the best possible care regarless of the cost.

nonnatus

I think Errata makes the most sensible point! The Mum has a great deal of money "on paper" and her son and the family are obviously happy to do a great job looking after her amidst their family, in her house.

She needs to release some of that equity to free up cash that will pay for her care and adaptations to the house.

I don't know why I have just basically repeated Errata's post but I thought it was so wonderfully simple and not the immediate solution that had occured to me (and no doubt many others...)

margaretclare

nonnatus wrote: »

I think Errata makes the most sensible point! The Mum has a great deal of money "on paper" and her son and the family are obviously happy to do a great job looking after her amidst their family, in her house.

She needs to release some of that equity to free up cash that will pay for her care and adaptations to the house.

I don't know why I have just basically repeated Errata's post but I thought it was so wonderfully simple and not the immediate solution that had occurred to me (and no doubt many others...)

Yes, I agreed with Errata above. This is a wealthy woman by anyone's standards. Money doesn't give a lot of things, but it does give you choice.

mad990diver

Thank you all for some excellent advice, insight and comments on our situation.

Mum is currently in a home providing "nursing and residential" care while her needs are assessed. We hope this will give us sufficient information to deremine if returning to her home (subject to considerable alterations) is a possibility or whether we need to look for a suitable longer term "nursing" facility. The one where she is now at first sight doesn't appear suitable as most of the residents have dementia so not much conversation or company for her.

I know we will help Mum get the care and quality of life she deserves. I don't have any children to asist me in my old age which makes all this quite worrying on another level too!

Thanks again.

Errata

The one where she is now at first sight doesn't appear suitable as most of the residents have dementia so not much conversation or company for her.

Unfortunately that's the case in the vast majority of care homes.