'Consultation over the Gambling Introductory Offer Loopholes board' blog discussion



  • foofi22
    foofi22 Forumite Posts: 2,180
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts
    To the people suggesting to make the board 'private' to stop 'lurkers' - how exactly would that work? Wouldn't the evil lurkers just sign up to MSE and view the content regardless, slightly ironic loophole.

    Plus why are 'lurkers' so often mentioned and hated - do we needed thousands of people saying "Made £2.48, ...", "I love BOG..." etc.

    The comparisons of PRS and Icesave are nonsensical and pointless - in whatever fact of life you are going to take some element of risk whether that be not getting back what you put in, losing everything you have or something in between. The key difference is that with Icesave (or any other retail organisation be that bank or shop) you have consumer protection and laws to protect you, there are no such laws or guarantees for bookmakers.

    This board should be shut, it has gone beyond its original purpose.
  • davidz1
    davidz1 Forumite Posts: 210
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    1) GIOL is not complicated compared to mortgages or pensions. It is just unfamiliar to most people until they get used to it. There is ample information for beginners and a questions thread. Even though beginners ask the same questions over and over again, there is a tireless group of experts that patiently take them through the early stages. This is a fantastic resource - we should be rewardiing these people, not threatening to close them down.

    2) If you are careful and take the advice on the board you will make far more money than is available on any of the other forums. I have made about £15000 in the last four years and I am very risk averse, only doing risk free offers. This has made a huge difference to my life.

    3) If the forum wasn't here, newbie matched betters would be in a much more vulnerable position - having to manage without the help of experienced individuals who freely give their time, often at very short notice. Without GIOL, the offers would still be there and people would still be trying to take advantage, but from a much weaker postion.

    4) There are some individuals who would like to see GIOL closed because they have a vested interest in keeping offers to a small closed community. I am sure some will post here recommending closure for personal gain. I think the opportunities should be open to all.

    Just my tuppence worth.
  • super_reds
    super_reds Forumite Posts: 766
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper
    blades123 wrote: »
    There are a number of issues on here.

    Firstly: everyone should know about the laws regarding bookmakers and if they into administration / bust. Punters money is not protected and are last in the que when it comes to being paid out through liquidation / administration procedures. Any of the highstreet bookies could go into administration, esp if the banks recall their loans so people should beware that their money is not safe in a bookmaker. The business model of PRS was not the best but in terms of the board rules, it was considered as "risk-free" since you match bet the prices that were given. I doubt MSE could start saying which bookie people should use.

    Secondly, you're not going to get a fair discussion regarding the future of GIOL. The majority of people who say to close it will be Trolls, a term that we use to describe people who take offers but contribute nothing. These people want to keep all the best offers for themselves and will abuse anyone who posts a good offer which is risk free - first hand experience at this when I've posted an offer in the past.

    Finally, the mods do a great job of keeping tabs on the board. The main prob tho is new members not reading the intro guide or not actually using the search function.

    Blades I have to disagree with most of what you post, firstly if a bank was to recall loans owed by a UK high street bookie there would be thousands of investors queueing up to buy those businesses and in my opinion no punters would get burnt. The value of the brands is far in excess of what they owe to punters. The PRS model was far far different than any other bookie I had ever seen yet the offers and participation was encouraged by one of the Board Guides and several senior posters so became more credible for the less experienced matched bettor.

    Your second point suggests that MSE should do away with any democratic view because it's not one you share. Have you ever thought about moving somewhere further East blades, Iran is lovely at this time of the year.

    Thirdly the board guide(s) does her best but it is a thankless task and things often slip through the net making the forum far from risk free.

    People have lost five figure sums to PRS, maybe they went into PRS with their eyes wide open, however this is not a form of money-saving when things can and do go as badly wrong as they have done.
  • maximum147
    maximum147 Forumite Posts: 403
    Tenth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited 20 February 2012 at 2:15PM
    I would hate to see this forum closed - It has changed my life for the better. I believe if it seen by members only, that would help matters. Proper matched betting is as risk free as anything in life.
    I cannot put into words how grateful I am to the good people on here that post up offers, that otherwise I would have missed.
    It would be a shame to close the forum because of the minority.
    There are enough warnings and guides to get you started, and I believe the forum is policed very well.
    Matched betting is risk free and is in the spirit of GIOL.
  • angela2011
    angela2011 Forumite Posts: 471 Forumite
    This board has also made me over £5000 and that is just doing simple offers that are risk free. I currently don't so the 'what ifs' etc as there's too much money involved for my float. I need to use it month on month to live.

    However if i were to start doing these offers i would only do so if i FULLY understand what was involved and cetainly wouldn't jump in feet first.

    I for one think this should stay however as Darloscot suggests it could be improved upon by removing out of date info etc.
  • Somerset
    Somerset Forumite Posts: 3,633
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    I actually agree with all the previous posts, which want contradictory outcomes, so a bit weird.

    First off, I want GIOL to stay open, from a purely selfish perspective. I make money, I 'know' the poster's ie who knows their bean's, the spreadsheet's that 'brains' volunteer to us are spectacular and much appreciated. Offer's are dissected, pitfalls and upsides spotted. Martin, you have by accident, established a very knowledgable community.

    Ok, the money saving bit. Again, by accident, you've spawned a 'money-making' sub-forum. As other's have pointed out, you'll make more from MB than any of the other idea's on the site, ebaying, comping etc. This is lucrative. Now - if you shut down GIOL - you'll deprieve MSE user's of the opportunity to get into this. If you don't know about the subject, you don't go looking for forum's that discuss it. I'm not a gambler - I 'stumbled' across this on MSE - in fact I mentally 'followed' it for two year's before I actually started reading the sticky's in preparation for dipping a toe in. So, if GIOL disappear's, no other MSE member's will ever discover it.

    However, your statement effectively said you can't 'police' this forum. Can't - because you don't understand the subject matter sufficiently. So I get that - that is a serious problem. You've got a healthy little sub-forum going, and following a complaint, you're trying to work out what the hell people are talking about and how the maths works.

    Tbh, I think the decision's already been taken. It's easier for MSE to shut it down rather than effectively 'train' staff in MBing techniques.

    P.S. If this forum is shut down PLEASE can we establish where the regular poster's are going to move to cos I want to come too. Not only do I enjoy all this milarcky but the money is very useful. I don't want to give it up - so I'd like to follow the crowd to wherever it goes.
  • slickric1234
    slickric1234 Forumite Posts: 358 Forumite
    the forum has changed massively over the last couple of years, back in tims days when olnly risk free offers were put up it was exactly the kind of thing that could help people climb out of debt

    a boardguide is effectively a mouthpiece for you, to have one who heavily promotes offers whilst not really knowing what they are doing is crazy, to promote something like PRS that was clearly unsustainable to anyone whos been gambling for a while is laughable

    a boardguide should be there to moderate posts, not put in a personal opinion which even tho it says it isnt the opinion of mse, effectively is, the board guide should either be anonymous, or possibly post under a different username to the one which they post personal opinions under

    this is not a true gambling forum people who want those know where to find them

    a board for completely risk free offers isnt a bad thing but a board where people are encouraged to deposit into maltese ponzi schemes by someone who is supposed to know what they are doing and to enter into other riskyoffers isnt really a thing that the people in debt at mse should be exposed to,

    i gamble regularly with money i can afford to lose, but i understand many others dont have this money they can afford to lose on a website where a lot of people are desperate to save money,

    theres also the issue of gambling being addictive, someone who doesnt really know what they are doing and makes a loss could easily start chasing those losses gambling with money they definitely cant afford to lose

    in the current gambling climate i would advise only promoting offers from big uk companies who are on the whole pretty fair and well regulated if any dispute arises

    to promote us carribbean maltese greek or any other dodgy european countries bookmakers is frankly crazy

    truly risk free gambling introductory offers from the big british bookmakers atleast ensure your money is safe if you do it correctly and is exactly what this board should be about
  • Smeagal
    Smeagal Forumite Posts: 718
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts
    foofi22 wrote: »
    This board should be shut, it has gone beyond its original purpose.

    Agreed, when I started in 2006 the offers where just bet x get x free bet, nice and simple and as risk free as you are going to get, nowadays with there being very few of those offers about you get a lot of +EV offers and 'what if' type offers.

    Over the long term you'll make money but not really what the board was set up for originally.

    Then there was the PRS debacle, not really sure why it was allowed to continue that thread, as far as I was aware arbing was not to be discussed at MSE as it wasn't 'risk free', yet a tiny independant bookmaker purposely giving inflated odds to arbers was always going to end in tears.
  • alanjuk
    alanjuk Forumite Posts: 372
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts
    It could be time to resurrect http://matchedbetting.proboards.com/ again
  • woody79
    woody79 Forumite Posts: 5 Forumite
    I know I have only officially registered very recently, but I have been reading this forum for a while now and took the plunge late last year having done a lot of research. I have found the advice invaluable and would actually like to use this post as an official "thank you" to all the help! I am a statistician by trade and could probably have figured most of it out for myself but having it set out clearly and in a way that makes matched betting virtually risk-free (I believe nothing at all is risk-free) it has been an invaluable resource. I'm already making a good bit of money on the side and I am confident that I can continue to do so because of the advice on here.

    Just thought I'd add my bit :)
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