'Consultation over the Gambling Introductory Offer Loopholes board' blog discussion

Rich08

I recall being on the board as a relative newbie when the first goal scorer market fiasco was ongoing and whilst i realised watching the posts come in that something was horribly wrong i didnt understand enough back then to know what that was .

The current situation seems very akin to the FG market fiasco and the board survived that.
Hoever it cannot be denied that offers are becoming increasingly complexed and recalling trying to get my head round matched betting way back then was hard enough so i sympathise with anyone joining the boards now and starting from scratch.

I totally get Martin wanting to distance his site from what could potentially be money losing scenarios brought on by a big increase in the potential for human error and frankly its going to get worse when information on cross market arbitrage/matched betting slowly filters onto this site.
The vision of some poor soul trying to figure out a AH.75/EH.5+1 + (x*y) matched bet doe nt exactly leave one with a warm fuzzy glow knowing that it is most likely someone that could nt afford to lose any money by getting a bet wrong...so yes its going to get more complexed if left alone.

However matched betting is a damn good way for someone willing to invest time in learning to make extra cash in a relatively safe way if done correctly.

On a personal level it would make little difference as i spend any online time on the arbitrage forums and look in here simply because i like what it is.

I would suggest the way forward is cutting it back to basics of the simple straight forward offers being discussed here and anything else moved onto a seperate forum that can only be accessed once its clear that they have a firm grasp of the basics of matched betting (posts on the basic matched betting used as proof is one way of the top of my head)

So yes keep the board open for ladbrokes etc etc but move the more complexed offers to an "advanced board"

a further argument to keep it here in some shape or form is that those wishing to start will do so anyhow whether here or elsewhere....
here = safe envireoment..
elsewhere = potentially getting ripped off and losing out on decent bonuses for someone advising a poor one that lets that someone gain a referal and many other traps awaiting out there.

As the "easy bonuses" slowly become more complexed and in turn increase risk then they will be removed from the board also and in time the future of the board will no longer be viable in a forum such as MSE (Natural evolution rather than forcing anything now is my preferred choice)

hobertl

It's slightly worrying that the forum is at risk on the pretense that it is not completely risk free. In other sections of the forum advice is given on buy-to-let, equities & funds and the guarantee on personal savings frequently quoted.
Here there exists far more risk than is ever discussed on the GIOL board, with much of that falling outside the control of the individual (for example, if banks begin folding on a scale at which you find yourself relying on the 85k guarantee, it may well turn out to be, all things considered, a rather hollow guarantee).

With regards to matched betting, decisions concerning risk fall to the individual alone. It is obvious some rush in without a second thought, but posts from such individuals seeking help are relatively uncommon. I'd like to think the 'silent majority' simply address offers they understand, gradually progressing to the more 'complex' ones as they gain a broader understanding of the methods involved.

There is no doubt the board is, to use a hideously overused cliche - a 'force for good'. However, it is also evident that the forum attracts a great many vulnerable and often desperate individuals, to whom stumbling across the GIOL board could prove damaging.

Pandering to the lowest common denominator is endemic in the UK, so it is perhaps not surprising the forum is moving in that direction. Clearly, there exists greater demand for advice on price differentials and payday loans, and without meaning to offend, those requiring advice on the aforementioned would struggle the understand the rather simple mathematics/methods behind matched betting.

thelawnet

hobertl wrote: »

It's slightly worrying that the forum is at risk on the pretense that it is not completely risk free. In other sections of the forum advice is given on buy-to-let, equities & funds and the guarantee on personal savings frequently quoted.

To be fair, those things are investments and not likely to lead to compulsive behaviour (although there are a minority of dodgy posts in the 'investments' side).

You should have a look at the 'ex-gamblers' thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1090463

"I started Matched Betting on the MSE forum about five years ago. It genuinely is (or was) a great way to make some risk-free money, which I did. Then I moved onto casino bonus-bagging, and that's where my problems started. It was good at first, a bit riskier than matched betting, but still very profitable. Then over the last couple of years the casino offers slowed down, whereas I speeded up! I now gamble every day at online casinos, losing money on slots that I just can't afford to lose. I don't even pretend to myself that I'm playing for bonuses anymore, I simply gamble for fun. Today for example, I have just blown a hundred quid, so will have to buy food for my family on a credit card until payday two weeks away. I control our family finances and although we are massively in debt, it's not all gambling related and all our bills are paid on time etc etc. "

"Thank you so much for that post that is exactly like me, totally the same - started out MSE Match bettingand made about £3000. I had never gambled before that apart from free bingo offers and then moved onto casinoes and now I just feel the urge to gamble when I am bored. I work from home and often spend time in hotel so its so tempting to log in especially as I get so many email many with free offers."

Pandering to the lowest common denominator is endemic in the UK, so it is perhaps not surprising the forum is moving in that direction. Clearly, there exists greater demand for advice on price differentials and payday loans, and without meaning to offend, those requiring advice on the aforementioned would struggle the understand the rather simple mathematics/methods behind matched betting.

I think the point is that there are no gambling articles on MSE, Martin doesn't have knowledge about it, neither do other of the site's journalists, so the forum doesn't really fit.

There are plenty of sites pertaining to online gambling, but this clearly is not one.

The complexity is clearly there:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/391366

Unlike the investments forum, you cannot advise the less able to get an IFA.

taker920

Get rid of it. Less traffic hitting the bookies should mean better ongoing bonuses for us matched betting veterans :money:

TheoHands

It's no more risky than investing money in social lending (e.g. Zopa). There there's a risk of lending to a bad debtor and seeing part of your investment lost. With GIOL the risk is user error or a bad bookie. Ironically, GIOL is the best place on the web to a) get advice on how to dig yourself out of user error; b) help you to decide if you can get your head around a complex offer before diving in; and c) research people's experiences of bookies so that you know what to expect.

Also, with GIOL you can start with a £200 stake, learn the ropes and double this on very straightforward offers from reliable bookies - having experienced members advise you and check your numbers. Once you've withdrawn your initial stake, then you're using your profit - you won't technically be exposed to loss, just a reduction in profit.

It would be sad to see this go as the advice and knowledge here is invaluabale and has practically eliminated my exposure to risk from matched betting. If it goes, then the people who will miss out will be the ones who do their research before taking on a new offer, those that jump in with both feet will probably still do so. So who benefits?

horsekeeper

Suggestions:

1. Rename the forum. Remove the word “Gambling” and replace it with, for example, “Betting” or “Bookmaker”. There is no gambling involved.
2. Only allow discussions regarding sign-up bonuses or reloads from reputable and established bookmakers. Off the top of my head, there are at least 30-40 bookmakers that fit these criteria. There is no need for a sign-up bonus to be published for a newly formed bookmaker. There is a lot more risk in signing up to a new bookmaker that the majority of people know nothing about such as Dhoze than there is to William Hill which pretty much everybody in the UK knows.
3. The only “if” offers that should be allowed are long-standing common offers from these established bookmakers, such as:
   
   • Bet365’s 4/1+ freebet offer
   • Refund on correct score bets if the game ends 0-0
4. Offers involving first goal scorer should not be published as they carry an inherent risk in the source a bookmaker uses to determine the goal scorer. Should a situation occur where a goal scorer is in dispute and two bookmakers use different sources then bettor could lose hundreds.
5. At least three dedicated active moderators need to monitor the forum.
6. Perhaps make the forum only visible to registered users over 18 years of age.

It seems that this forum has gone off track. It used to be a nice young toddler who adored its parents and has turned into an unruly teenager, not wanting to listen to anything, blaming everybody else for their mistakes and wanting everything done for him.

It is time to get back to basics.

maximum147

I am shocked it has come to this. Matched betting has made me 8k plus in under a year.
If people cannot see that this is risk free, well it's beyond any hope of survival.
Over the last year there have been many offers that I never fully understood - so left well alone. For example Betfair horse multiples.
Yes I had the spreadsheets for the multiples, but could not get my head around it, so left it alone.
There are enough warnings for users, and surely it's up to the individual to make a decision.
Finding this forum has changed my life, so much for the better.
Change this forum's name, have more mods if that helps, and make it viewable only to members.
But please do not close, this forum has been a godsend to me.
But we will survive, be it here or somewhere else.
Would just like to say thanks for a wonderful 12 months.

jbet

Close it.

Those of us who currently use it will carry on and move elsewhere.

The ones who will lose out are MSE users of other boards who may have been drawn in and been able to use the MB techniques to get themselves out of debt.

To keep it you simply need to appoint some strong Mods to help jobbingmusician enforce the existing 'risk free' mantra (and also remove the word gambling)

northernpunter

I have read through this thread, the blog and the thread on the GIOL board and the one thing that strikes me (as others have mentioned) is the amount of people strongly asking for it to be closed who I have NEVER (in an almost a year of posting) seen post anything or contribute a thing on the GIOL board.

The people who actually do post and understand how the thread works and the techniques are mainly in favour of it staying open in some form or another, coincidence?

I find it unbelievable the tripe that some of the ignorant and uneducated people are posting, when they clearly just don't understand what the board is about. They see the word "gambling" and automatically think the devil. If they actually took the time to do some research, read the threads, do some dry runs, they would see it is NOT gambling.

As others have said I believe the decision has already been made to close the board, and as I say that would be hugely sad as it has been invaluable for me over the last year, and pulled me from a very tricky financial position to a stable position. This is thanks to the people on the forum, the ideas we share, the spreadsheets people provide and so on, so to lose that would be a huge shame.

If there is a tiny chance the board can stay then why not (and this is cherry picking ideas from other people!):

1. Remove the word "gambling" as it is not gambling. Anyone who actually reads the forum can see if anyone posts about gambling or mugging a freebet they are shouted down/thread closed. Call it "matched betting techniques" or the like
2. Split the forum in two. Have an open forum which just discusses simple sign up bonuses, and then a locked/invite only forum for advanced existing customer offers. You could even make people accept T&C's when they join that they accept all liability etc.
3. Make all of the warnings more explicit that people need to know what they are doing etc.
4. If you say the forum mods don't have the expertise then why not tap in to the users? There is a probably a solid core of 100 who seriously know there stuff and I am sure of them would be happy to help.

But if, as I suspect, the decision has already been made then PLEASE:

1. Close it down slowly
2. Do not do it before the matched betting world cup that is Cheltenham
3. Allow us to take all of the data to another forum - as there is reams of content that we as a forum have provided

nicknameless

MSE_Martin wrote: »

The discussion of invidual stocks and shares is not allowed in these forums - never has been

and everything discussed in the range of MSE forums is 'risk free'?

i very much appreciate where this is coming from, but a little consistency in approach would help or simply call it for what it is.