'Consultation over the Gambling Introductory Offer Loopholes board' blog discussion

rosepetal37

woodcroft wrote: »

ETA You need a poll. These are the options
* I tried GIOL and lost money
* I tried GIOL and made some money
* I tried GIOL and made a lot of money
* I haven't tried GIOL yet, but think I will!

Simple - either
a) keep it*
b) ditch it

* Re comment from board guide "We could hide the board so only registered users can see it – although I’m concerned that wouldn’t help." - I agree it wouldn't help, but if GIOL stays, change it to reg'd users only

Rather than having a normal poll, just do it by making a post - then users who don't meet the criteria can just have that post deleted (and their vote won't count)

vroom3

I have actively used the MSE site and the GIOL fourm for a number of years.

A number of issues spring to mind when considering now the spread and impact of the MSE board in general and GIOL in particular;

• Does it fashionably fit with the vision for MSE?
• MSE is a game changer now - and the effect of something in the weekly email or quoted onsite has a much bigger impact than it ever did before?
• Has the original definition of the forum changed over the years

We have seen major Companies (Tesco for instance) change promotions and policies as a result of the MSE effect, so it is prudent to take stock of where we find ourselves and realign principles if required.



There is no doubt that Bookmakers have changed their ways too - as the average mb'er has 'wised up' to their strategies - and its something of an arms race between bookies and mb'ers to keep ahead of the game.


On the positive side - there are many risk free offers out there that can be exploited, and there are others that are good if worked in the right way - but not risk free. The help and support of the foum is appreciated by all who regularly frequent and understand the concepts - and sometimes it can be a great laugh too!


On the negative side is the stigma surrounding 'gambling' and all that negativity the industry seems to carry - despite the fact that to be an MB'er is to be intensely risk averse and to actually never gamble! In fact we will spend hours creating formula's and methods to that very end and share them with colleagues to devise the 'perfect strategy'.

Despite all this there are many people who simply don't get it - and still have a view that 'ah the bookmakers always win in the end' and cannot understand the principles behind the way mb'ing is done.


From my perspective - the name is wrong. GIOL doesnt cut it - as noone is advising gambling. Similarly - some offers do need policing, but given how quickly the forum changes - it needs some more experienced moderators to help and an agreed standardised approach to analysing a new post/offer that is set in stone. i.e. if its not risk free - it isnt allowed. Other offers may be valid and +ve but these belong somewhere outside of MSE.



I have enjoyed viewing, contributing, challenging and together benefiting from the support and advice available - and I hope that an acceptable way forward can be found...

Aar0n

Nanny state comes to MSE. If people can't read and understand thing then don't attempt them. Simple as that.

If GIOL goes will there be another 5 forums dedicated to how many times a pair of shoe laces can be re-used to save money?

Tatty_

MSE_Martin wrote: »

While I appreciate the feedback. The key thing many have missed is saying "leave it as it is, people make their own decisions" doesn't fit any more.

Its worth carefully reading the blog - I laid out the points in details, and thought through explaining it.

My forum team are not gambling offers experts and are no longer able to adjudicate what breaks the rules any more - what is risk free and what isn't. And frankly many of the users disagree on definitions.

That leaves us in an impossible situation we need to address.

Martin

Why not appoint more board guides? I seem to recall that there were a few people on here who volunteered for the role when JM was given the job.

Alternatively, what about appointing one or two volunteers who's role it would be to assess whether an offer is risk free in the event of a dispute? They could be experienced forum members who could give a view on the offer as you 'are no longer able to adjudicate what breaks the rules any more'.

PatrickPower

As mentioned earlier by Red Joker, the closure of the GIOL forum looks like a foregone conclusion. It’s just a shame that MSE Martin doesn’t have the balls to come out and say that, if that indeed is his intention.

Why bother with this sham consultation process just so he can justify it with “Well we asked the users, and it was their decision to close the GIOL forum” nonsense. Look at how popular the GIOL forum is. What other information do you need? People aren’t using the forum day in day out because they are losing money hand over fist, quite the opposite.

Besides, where’s the terms of reference for this so called consultation and the criteria upon which the decision is going to be made, not to mention timescales. This process is a transparent as mud. Come on Martin show us the T&Cs, you bang on about them often enough!

It’s your website, if you want to close the GIOL forum then do it, don’t waste our time with this faux consultation.

Closing GIOL isn’t going to stop myself or any existing matched betters from doing matched betting. We will just find other places to talk about it. It will only close down the opportunity for others to make a risk free additional income.

Rant over!

Martin Lewis “The key is my forum team are not gambling offers experts”. I thought you were all about financial education. Maybe that should start in house. Matched betting, rocket science it ain’t!

Patrick Power “GIOL a lot safer than putting your money in an Icelandic bank!”

Rant finally over!

rosepetal37

Just my 2p worth

• Offers have become more complex yes. Look at multiples for example. Now BF has changed the banker to this booster, yet people were still convinced they could make money from it. Even the banker was probably only going to make £10-£20 if you were lucky and doing it risk free, but the number of times I've read on TGT about the number of cockups is amazing
• People seem to think No goal scorer / 0-0 is the same market. Just like "to win both halves" is the same as HT/FT. Not sure if the recent NGS/0-0 thread was a wind up or not?
• The board does need more policing. miskool is a BG, but it seems like JM does most the work herself. Threads that go off topic or that discuss gambling need locking sooner (i.e. with the extra BG's)
• Discussion about +EV should be banned. I hate it and I don't know what it means and it doesn't sound risk free to me

On the plus side there are simple offers to do yes, such as SUBs and simple IF offers, so maybe the forum should be just limited to those.

nelster

Sad to see it come to this, wonderful board that changed my life.

However, being purely selfish, putting a lid on it now just safeguards us old guards future profits.

The market has changed. When I started you'd take £50 from every book in sight, easy peasy. The games changed now, all if this that and the other.

As someone said, the MSE brand has changed, it is now, a brand. The brand carries so much weight Martin Lewis has to be aware of any Gerald Ratner stuff that could make his name mud quickly.

One £200 offer * 1000 people * a winning bet @ 7.0 (as it was SNR of course and posted in no chat just tips) * a bankrupt rogue bookie could allow someone with an agenda to say MSE cost £1.4 million

And what would Big Don do ?

Kingchamp

The key is having experienced Mods, we have one or maybe two but there are many great posters in the forum i am sure would be more than happy to take some of the workload. The second point is it appears these mods are unable to delete posts just lock them, this leaves them there for far too long.

I havent seen anything more untoward recently than i had a few years ago. To suggest that there are more not risk free offers being posted other than the odd lurker making a post or a regular advertising a complex offer.

There are of course other benifits, this forum has made people a lot of cash, far more than your 1% savings accounts (and thats per annum!!). In fact you can double a £20 within 20 minutes and completely risk free. Where else will you get that?

If it is decided to close the foum I hope the forum itself (threads for last year or two) are transferred.

fredrics

I have only recently discovered GIOL, and it has really helped with my financial situation. All my information comes from this board, and the worries about it not being risk free are certainly addressed in the introductory guide.

My suggestion would be to divide the board up more with extra sub forums. Each topic would be seperated into their respective categories. Initially users would only be able to see the basic sign up offers. As they post more/are around longer they can access the more difficult sections. This reduces risk as new people will start easy and work their way up. It also would help with organisation as the board is currently quite disjointed.

Itchy

This is an absolute joke - Should MSE not be taking part in this "consultation" - are you even there?

Martin has asked me to re-read his blog which I have and its clear to me that the consultation is simply a discussion as to how best wind the forum up and get it offline rather than fix these issues whatever these are perceived to be.

Traditional loophole management, good old graft, chat and community was what MSE was about... now we have a new flashy masthead, a narrow forum (I seem to remember the consultation on this agreeing en masse that it sucks - surprise surprise this was ignored) and oh yes a new tagline (note, careful removal of free to use, free of ads) but hey as long as we can get more affiliate links and revenue generators down the side of the pages in the future then its all good.

GIOL no longer fits with MSE and MSE is no longer concerned with the day to day things that make changes to peoples lives. Its all about "oh energy minister called me today" "oh i'm championing this or that for parliament" and what seems to be Martin's crusade to the holier than thou peoples champion.

But what is this Martin? dare you champion gambling? you... Mr MoneySavingExpert? ...best sweep aside as its not good for PR.

The claim that the forum editors are "not gambling experts" is also the most empty of explanation - digesting this comment am I right to think they are Savings, Mortgages and Credit Card experts? FSA registered and tested surely? ..but thats right - MSE makes affiliate income from these areas so they must be protected, GIOL on the otherhand offers no income (its must really break your heart not to avail of the upwards of £50 available for new registrations at Ladbrokes / Will Hill and Betfair!) so lets close it up under the guise of a consultation and remove the cost of bandwith for the forum and potential that something could impact brand MSE (more popular than itunes according to some!)

All this talk of risk... this is a bout MSE risk/reward and no affiliate income = no interest.

I apologise if this reads harsh but sadly gone are the days that Martin was representative of the populace. Listen, well done on creating this site, making a pretty penny and moving in the celebrity/political circle but please, for the love of god, just be honest - we are all adults.