Complaint to Ombudsman re. Autorenewal = A Sharp Practice

Bangton

It's interesting how you see it as theft, when plenty of people would see it as convenient..one less call to make if I can't find a cheaper quote or one less thing to do if I simply haven't got time to shop around.

Complain to the Ombudsmen if you wish but they will view your complaint and what Elephant did to put it right. They are not in a position to ensure practices are fair. For that I would recommend the FSA or the OFT...however I can't see this being a major issue as some customers are bound to value it and every insurer gives a cooling off period after the renewal to allow you to cancel if needs be

Similarly insurers make it clear they will auto renew on the docs which I appreciate you don't read but really that's your problem!

meer53

If someone notifies you, in writing, that your insurance will be renewed unless YOU cancel it, how is it "sharp practice" ? Or theft ? Or anything else, apart from insurance renewal ?

dransfield

Bangton wrote: »

Sorry OP but threads like this annoy me. Your going to make a complaint with the FOS when the insurer has sorted out the matter? Why?

The FOS will throw this out the moment they look at your renewal which WILL say you should contact Elephant if you DON'T wish to renew (or something similar).

In my opinion the auto renewal is very handy as it means I can renew year on year if I cannot find a cheaper quote..if I can then I call the insurer to stop the insurance and they do a deal anyway! (which I wouldn't have know about if I didn't have to call and cancel the auto renewal).

It's swings and roundabouts..it doesn't suit you, but it might suit plenty of other people...I am sorry to be harsh but I see no reason to go to the FOS...the FOS is there when the insurer cannot deal with the complaint OR deal with it to your satisfaction. How can you not be satisfied when you have had your money returned?

...As mentioned elsewhere, because I am furious at this practice, in the same way that if I caught anyone trying to steal from somebody, for the thief to return the property isn't good enough.

I take on board that you find auto-renewal handy.
In my experience (2 or 3 premiums per year for the last 20 years) I have only had 3 renewal quotes that did not make me shop around.
In fact now I think about it, although I stayed with the same company a few times, but I remember phoning up and asking for a lower premium, so even in those cases auto-renewal would not have worked for me.

Dransfield

Quentin

dransfield wrote: »

Well I don't see this as being much different to general theft.

But you didn't read your renewal docs, and clearly didn't understand (or didn't read) the docs you got originally.

Are you not reading the messages here you are getting too?

(At least we have read your "complaint" first)

dransfield

meer53 wrote: »

If someone notifies you, in writing, that your insurance will be renewed unless YOU cancel it, how is it "sharp practice" ? Or theft ? Or anything else, apart from insurance renewal ?

Because writing to somebody informing somebody of an intended action does not make that action reasonable, or constitute a contract.

I consider it to be sharp practice because it entails deducting an un-agreed amount using credit card information retained from a previous transaction, and because this is in lieu of a supposed contract which I have not agreed to.

In my case this is theft (or close) because I did not agree to the terms. If the premium was identical to last year's then I might not have as strong an argument, but because the premium is 30+% higher, then this is not a bargain that I have agreed to this year, nor previously entered into last year!

On that final point, it is therefore not even renewal of a previous year's insurance, agreement or bargain, but is in fact a new and wholly more expensive offer.

But I concede, with some surprise, that some people here do actually like this practice.

dunstonh

Your missing the point: It doesn't matter how lazy or stupid or badly educated I might be, I entered into an agreement with elephant to provide me with insurance for a year, not on an ongoing basis. There was no cancellation notice period, or any other contractual obligation beyond the expiry date.

Actually, you entered into an agreement to provide insurance each year from then on until you tell them otherwise.

Nor was there any obligation for me to "act on instructions", in the same way I'm not obliged to act on instructions of the company that a few years ago fitted my double glazing!

Your contract for double glazing was a one off thing. Your insurance was an annually renewing contract.

I have little doubt that somewhere in the pack they sent me it will inform me of their intention. So what? Shall I write to my neighbour and tell him that I am fencing off the end of his garden on Feb 29th unless he expresses otherwise?

Do you have a contract with your neighbour agreeing that?

Others respondents to my original post also miss the point when they say "Why complain when they've refunded?". Well I don't see this as being much different to general theft. If somebody stole from me, then I caught them red handed, then they returned my property, but they continued to steal from others (and attempt to steal again from myself in future), I would call the police.

Taking money that you agreed for them to take is legal.

It's the 'sharp practice' that I'm objecting to. I'm complaining because I believe that this practice is wrong and should be changed.

I'm not a fan of it. However, I cant see how you can class it the same way you do. The regulator prefers it and there has been consideration to making it mandatory as there are people that benefit from it. Plus, it does suit the majority who do renew with the same company each year.

dransfield

Just to follow up:-
An excellent piece of advice from somebody on MSE: When sending in your proof of NCB to a new insurer, state in the covering letter that you don't want the insurance to automatically renew at year end.
In fact I'm going one step further and actually writing this instruction (signed and dated) on the front of the NCB, so when year end comes, if the insurer got the NCB then they also got my instruction.
Dransfield

Quentin

dransfield wrote: »

Just to follow up:-
An excellent piece of advice from somebody on MSE: When sending in your proof of NCB to a new insurer, state in the covering letter that you don't want the insurance to automatically renew at year end.
In fact I'm going one step further and actually writing this instruction (signed and dated) on the front of the NCB, so when year end comes, if the insurer got the NCB then they also got my instruction.
Dransfield

This won't help you, if push comes to shove and your (signed and dated) scribble on your NCD proof is ignored!

If you want to change your agreement (which you will have given for automatic renewal, if that is the policy of your insurer), then you need them to confirm back to you that they agree to your instructions!

So not quite advice in the "excellent" category.

smoker99

dunstonh wrote: »

What you mean is that you are going to complain that the insurer did what they said they were going to do because you were too lazy or too stupid to read your post.

So what's your excuse?

Were you too lazy or too stupid to read the newbie alert underneath the OP's username, you know, those parts about giving "new posters a chance" and being "especially nice".

Welcome to the forum dransfield.

Bangton

dransfield wrote: »

Just to follow up:-
An excellent piece of advice from somebody on MSE: When sending in your proof of NCB to a new insurer, state in the covering letter that you don't want the insurance to automatically renew at year end.
In fact I'm going one step further and actually writing this instruction (signed and dated) on the front of the NCB, so when year end comes, if the insurer got the NCB then they also got my instruction.
Dransfield

You could just tell them when you take out the policy?