Tuition fees case: Callum Hurley and Katy Moore lose

The_One_Who

Oxford and Cambridge don't allow term-time work, but they also tend to have more money available to students and shorter terms, thus allowing for more holiday work. However, most universities don't advise doing more than 16 hours of work per week.

Working eight hours on a Saturday isn't going to pay the bills, but it certainly will help, both in terms of a little bit of extra cash and with getting some all-important job experience.

People don't have to go to university with no money, there is the school holidays prior to that, and the option to take a gap year to work and save. A lot of people do it.

SuperHan

I'm a huge advocator of the Student Finance system, and really don't understand people's aggravation at the new fees etc. I'm a student at the moment, and next years students will most likely end up better off than me as a current student.

I do, however, agree with the problem of income assessment. I'm entitled to the minimum loan amount, and I work around 16 hours a week, and I would still struggle to live without my parents support. I mean, I could cut back on spending, and could probably live off my job/loan or parents/loan if I needed to... But my loan amount is NOT enough to live off. I'm very fortunate in that I graduate this year, and my sister starts university next year, so there is no overlap needed of parental support. If there was, there is no consideration taken by student finance, and neither one of us would receive more support if we were studying at the same time even though my parents cannot fund us both.

I think this is where the system is flawed. My parents are fairly high earners, but they receive a lot of their income through rental of commercial properties. This rent goes to pay the mortgages on these properties, but SLC take no consideration of this. They see the rent as income and ignore the outgoings.

So although I still think that everyone can go to university, there are still some flaws in the system!!

mumps

SuperHan wrote: »

I'm a huge advocator of the Student Finance system, and really don't understand people's aggravation at the new fees etc. I'm a student at the moment, and next years students will most likely end up better off than me as a current student.

I do, however, agree with the problem of income assessment. I'm entitled to the minimum loan amount, and I work around 16 hours a week, and I would still struggle to live without my parents support. I mean, I could cut back on spending, and could probably live off my job/loan or parents/loan if I needed to... But my loan amount is NOT enough to live off. I'm very fortunate in that I graduate this year, and my sister starts university next year, so there is no overlap needed of parental support. If there was, there is no consideration taken by student finance, and neither one of us would receive more support if we were studying at the same time even though my parents cannot fund us both.

I think this is where the system is flawed. My parents are fairly high earners, but they receive a lot of their income through rental of commercial properties. This rent goes to pay the mortgages on these properties, but SLC take no consideration of this. They see the rent as income and ignore the outgoings.

So although I still think that everyone can go to university, there are still some flaws in the system!!

Not quite true about the rental income, the income they pay on the mortgage is disregarded as is any expenses such as legal fees, insurance costs and maintenance. In other words only taxable profits on the rental is counted.

Derivative

SuperHan wrote: »

I think this is where the system is flawed. My parents are fairly high earners, but they receive a lot of their income through rental of commercial properties. This rent goes to pay the mortgages on these properties, but SLC take no consideration of this. They see the rent as income and ignore the outgoings.

An interesting example which I hadn't thought of. It would indeed be fairer for SLC to allow some deduction for income-related expenses.

My condolences for your inability to recieve the grants - it does seem very unfair that I get grants out of my ears while others have to work their !!!!!!!! off.

I would guess that your circumstance is very rare though.

amiehall

Derivative wrote: »

An interesting example which I hadn't thought of. It would indeed be fairer for SLC to allow some deduction for income-related expenses.

My condolences for your inability to recieve the grants - it does seem very unfair that I get grants out of my ears while others have to work their !!!!!!!! off.

I would guess that your circumstance is very rare though.

I'm not an expert in this area having never been self-employed/a landlord but mortgage interest can be deducted when calculating profit to be taxed. I'd be surprised if this wasn't the case when it came to providing income information. For example, if you are self-employed, it's the profit from your business that is important. Nothing to do with cashflow. So expenses are taken into account. The interest counts as an expense but any capital repayment doesn't as that's simply a cashflow issue and doesn't actually impact on any profit/loss.

SuperHan

mumps wrote: »

Not quite true about the rental income, the income they pay on the mortgage is disregarded as is any expenses such as legal fees, insurance costs and maintenance. In other words only taxable profits on the rental is counted.

It's all a bit complicated because my Dad's a director of a company, and the properties are technically owned by the company, but effectively he has paid for them himself... Not entirely sure of the ins and outs of it, but I know that because of the way it has been set up that the income statement I sent off to SLC is remarkably higher than the amount of money that is actually going in to my parents' accounts.

And there's the whole director's drawings thing.. Most of my parents income comes from director's drawings from the company, which depends on how well the company did. So just because they did well the year before doesn't necessarily mean that they will earn as much the following year. So sometimes it does become a bit of a financial squeeze.

Like I said, I'm all for the system, I just think there a few oversights in the complicated situations!! (Like mine!)

mumps

SuperHan wrote: »

It's all a bit complicated because my Dad's a director of a company, and the properties are technically owned by the company, but effectively he has paid for them himself... Not entirely sure of the ins and outs of it, but I know that because of the way it has been set up that the income statement I sent off to SLC is remarkably higher than the amount of money that is actually going in to my parents' accounts.

And there's the whole director's drawings thing.. Most of my parents income comes from director's drawings from the company, which depends on how well the company did. So just because they did well the year before doesn't necessarily mean that they will earn as much the following year. So sometimes it does become a bit of a financial squeeze.

Like I said, I'm all for the system, I just think there a few oversights in the complicated situations!! (Like mine!)

We all have less paid into the bank than we earn, tax NI etc. I can assure you that if your parents are declaring all the rent and not deducting costs e.g. interest, costs like insurance, agents fees etc, they have got it wrong. I have rental income and I have had to find out about this myself. Perhaps they should see an accountant, the accountants fees are also tax deductable.

kayr_2

The_One_Who wrote: »

Oxford and Cambridge don't allow term-time work

At Cambridge you are allowed to work up to 6 hours a week with the permission of your tutor as long as you are doing well with your work. But it's not exactly easy to find a job which is flexible enough for them to approve and fits in with 8 week terms.

melancholly

kayr wrote: »

At Cambridge you are allowed to work up to 6 hours a week with the permission of your tutor as long as you are doing well with your work. But it's not exactly easy to find a job which is flexible enough for them to approve and fits in with 8 week terms.

that must be a recent change - when i was a student, it was explicitly banned (although some students did OTC - effectively the TA - and got paid to attend, which is allowed and a very small number of college bars allowed students to work for a very small wage!).

you do get holiday work more easily though, since you're around and available more than other students. plus there are a lot of grants you can get when you're there, from each individual college as well as central university ones.

SuperHan

mumps wrote: »

We all have less paid into the bank than we earn, tax NI etc. I can assure you that if your parents are declaring all the rent and not deducting costs e.g. interest, costs like insurance, agents fees etc, they have got it wrong. I have rental income and I have had to find out about this myself. Perhaps they should see an accountant, the accountants fees are also tax deductable.

An accountant filled out all my SLC forms. It's a really complicated situation, and to be fair, I'm not entirely sure of all the ins and outs. I think the problem lies with the company and what is in the company name and what isn't. All I know is the way the system works disregards some of the necessary outgoings, and puts my family's income tens of thousands of pounds above where it actually is - not just NI/tax/etc.

It isn't a problem, as my family does earn enough to support me anyway, the problem would be if my sister was studying at the same time as me. I don't even get enough student loan to cover my rent! Luckily we've missed this as she's done a year out!