Tuition fees case: Callum Hurley and Katy Moore lose

silvercar

Dunroamin wrote: »

A family in this position will have the money available which they've been supporting their child whilst at school. Now they no longer have these costs this money can be used for an allowance whilst at university.

The only saving will be food and a small amount for utilities.

Housing costs and commuting costs remain. You don't move to a smaller house when you still have 3 children at home full time plus the student.

silvercar

Voyager2002 wrote: »

OK, let's hear your plans for the perfect system. Just bear in mind that if the assessment process takes account of other factors then SLC would have to ask for more information so that the application process would be longer, more intrusive and generally complicated. That would make the whole system much more expensive than at present, and of course there would be even more mistakes...

Alternatively, a system that was far more generous and had less means-testing would of course cost a lot more. Would you be willing to pay the higher taxes needed to fund such a system? (Personally I would be, so long as the bulk of the tax burden fell on those with above-average incomes, but not many people would agree.)

I would like the assessment tot take more account of the size of the family ; a simple " how many in your family" type question would do it.

devildog

silvercar wrote: »

I would like the assessment tot take more account of the size of the family ; a simple " how many in your family" type question would do it.

But don't they already actually do that?
The students themselves have a section to complete re their parents/step parents etc and where they live(if absent for whatever reason etc)
The parents then complete their forms(if being income assessed)and on there is clearly asks for details of child dependants not in further/higher education and then another section for those dependants in further/higher education

amiehall

silvercar wrote: »

I would like the assessment tot take more account of the size of the family ; a simple " how many in your family" type question would do it.

A set amount of your income is disregarded for every dependent child (includes those in higher education)

The fact remains that if someone has chosen to spend money on a huge mortgage or a flash car or whatever rather than their children, I'm not totally sure why the government should have to step in. What people spend their money on is a choice that's left up to them. I find it hard to believe that a family on £41k would have nothing spare to give their child. If they choose not to that is different and in that case, a part-time job can easily make up the shortfall imo.

Off_PeakReturn

[QUOTE=KellyWhat is wrong with someone getting a job whilst studying if their parents earn above the threshold?

[COLOR=Blue]There's nothing wrong with someone getting a part-time job whilst studying if they can spare the time to do so and it does not impact negatively on their studies. However, that is not the case for a considerable number of students who are taking 'heavy duty' degree courses My two offspring are studying PPE and Computer Science at two of the best universities in the UK. The level and amount of coursework they're expected to do would not give them the freedom of 18 hours per week to do part-time work.
[/COLOR]
The Maintenance Loan would cover, at least, most of the accommodation fee's if living in halls. If living elsewhere that'd cover it easily. I work part time whilst studying and I earn £6,500 a year - I only work 18 hours per week, so it doesn't affect my studies.

Again, that would depend on where you live and study. My younger son's Hall of Residence fees are in the region of £4,400 per annum. His Maintenance Loan does not cover that. My elder son lives in student digs which aren't cheap plus utilities so, again, not a lot of change out of £3,500 and then some.

I find it ridiculous that someone would not go to University, just because they apparently cannot afford to go! There are many charities out there which offer bursaries etc so students whose families earn above the threshold but cannot afford to support their child through University, for whatever reason, can still go to University. It proves that they haven't done enough research, and if that is the case should they even attempt to study a degree, if they can't even do the relevant research in to funding for said degree.[/QUOTE]

As someone who has scoured the many, many websites, charities and otherwise, offering bursaries etc - a lot of them depend on where you live and on other qualifying factors so please do not make the case that there is a magic supply of bursaries and grants out there because that is just not true.

Derivative

Part time job argument is a bit naff because as stated some people wouldn't have the time and others are not actually allowed.

I'd get kicked off my course if it was found out that I have a part time job. I can work outside of term time, however it would be rather difficult to find an employer willing to let me pop in for a few weeks three times a year with large gaps inbetween.

I do have odd jobs that I do here and there, medical studies, occasional work for family members and temporary positions which adds to a significant amount - but nothing guaranteed and certainly nothing I would take out a four year degree based on - could dry up at any time.

Parental support is assumed by SLC if the household is above a certain cap. If the parents are not able to support their children then ways of cutting back need to be looked at.

MusicalLawyer

I'm studying an accelerated degree - yet I still manage to find time to work 18 hours per week, whilst maintaining an excellent 2:1 / 1 border average.

At the end of the day, if your earning above the threshold you should have to aid your children in their education. That is how the government see it.

Instead of parents moaning children cannot get more Student Loans (thus putting them further into debt), people should be quite glad, and proud, that they're able to help put their children through University, instead of moaning that they have to give them extra money.

poet123

We are quite high earners and we have had three sons go through Uni. We checked the cutoff point and knew he would not qualify for any means tested grants/loans so we didn't open up our finances to SLC either.

Lokolo

Derivative wrote: »

Part time job argument is a bit naff because as stated some people wouldn't have the time and others are not actually allowed.

But that was your choice to go to that university where those rules apply. The "no job during term time" doesn't apply across every university. So students can find extra finance to help them go through university should they wish.

I also did summer jobs, as well as 2 of my friends. You can earn around £2k if you pull your finger out, which is plenty.

Derivative

Lokolo wrote: »

But that was your choice to go to that university where those rules apply. The "no job during term time" doesn't apply across every university. So students can find extra finance to help them go through university should they wish.

I also did summer jobs, as well as 2 of my friends. You can earn around £2k if you pull your finger out, which is plenty.

Indeed it was - we'll see if that was the right path to take. I don't have to rely on part time income as I get means tested support (which I see as quite unfair).

Telling people to 'get a job' is all good and well, but going to university with no start up money, knowing you'll get less than living expenses, and hoping you'll be able to find a job to cover the rest is foolish in my view.

With the income I get I'd be able to cover the shortfall if I had no extra support. That is not the same as actually doing it, when failing to get a summer position could mean being £2k in the red.

You don't want to end up having to withdraw due to financial concerns.

I think the best thing to do if you are ineligible for support, and your parents refuse to support you, is to take a year out and work full-time. Noone will mind if you graduate a year older. And then you will have a large buffer for part time work to supplement, rather than the part time work being essential.

The final point as always, is that yes, it is possible, and yes, part time work helps, but the system is set up the way it is so that those who can support their children are expected to.