How do I deal with this awkward tenant?

jamie11

I would appreciate views on this problem I have, rather than type it all out again the thread here will explain it,

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?6503-how-do-I-deal-with-this-awkward-tenant

Thanks

pimento

Can't even be bothered to cut and paste?

mynameisdave

pimento wrote: »

Can't even be bothered to cut and paste?

OP on link goes back to 2007. Long term issue, far easier and neater to read the original thread than C&P

PasturesNew

I'd have thought sticking your long-standing tenant into a room in a shared house (having first booted out a lodger in order to make that room vacant), when the tenant is being discharged from hospital (so probably frail/elderly) is a bit twisted.

I'd have thought that you should accommodate them in suitable alternative and equivalent accommodation (self contained 1-bed flat/studio) for the duration of your repairs. And, as they're coming out of hospital you might have to pay their removals too.

Poor old bugg4hs.

Angelicdevil

PasturesNew wrote: »

I'd have thought sticking your long-standing tenant into a room in a shared house (having first booted out a lodger in order to make that room vacant), when the tenant is being discharged from hospital (so probably frail/elderly) is a bit twisted.

I'd have thought that you should accommodate them in suitable alternative and equivalent accommodation (self contained 1-bed flat/studio) for the duration of your repairs. And, as they're coming out of hospital you might have to pay their removals too.

Poor old bugg4hs.

Hmmm...can't help but feel sorry for the OP I'm afraid. Seems like he's been trying to gain access to HIS property in order to carry out required maintenance for years!

It's not his problem the cantankerous old git in there has fallen ill, so really shouldn't have to go any further than if the tenant was in full health.

After all, it was the tenant himself who refused to allow entry.

Sorry OP, can't help with the legality of where you stand etc but wish you luck!!!

tbs624

Hindsight and all that but why did you not go for a court order for access, rather than letting the disrepair drag on for a further 5 years?

Are you talking about alt accom purely for the duration of the repairs? I'd agree with Pastures that, as a min, it should be self contained.

Are you able to edit your post on the Zone - it's just that if you are to use a print out of that thread there is a comment you make 2nd from bottom para, that is perhaps best not left up

propertyman

I am sure jamie11 appreciates your opinions...

Those of us who have actually dealt with these tenancies know that Rent Act Tenants are often elderly and deeply suspicious of change, for a variety of reasons not least the "get 'em out by Friday" culture that they grew up in and the profit to be made for the landlord, with the insecurity that age and isolation can bring.

The lay landlord can often find themselves torn between their obligations and sympathy, as well as the challenge of a stubborn individual who just says no and won't cooperate or discuss, and the time and resources this takes.

"If I move out I'll never get back" is firmly believed.

So....

1: Hospital If he is in hospital for some time why not get in and do the worst issues asap? Find a local RICS firm to oversee the works for you if you are out of the area. With modern tech you can be there "virtually" on inspections.

2: Contact the Tenancy Relations Officer who can direct you to the social services support and the hospital social services team
to discuss access- perhaps he can go to a local hospice.

3: If he is intent on returning then with the TRO can you negotiate work around him.

If their is a garden or drive what about a small rented caravan on the drive? It is often reassuring as they are still "home".

4: If you need possession then you do have to offer them suitable accommodation plus moving help or expenses but they would meet their own expenses except where they are disadvantaged by the move. A room in a shared house is unlikely to be seen as suitable.

5 THe court has discretionary power to grant permanent possession if a suitable alternative is offered ( but the tenancy terms will be the similar) which means a loss in buying a house, but on the other hand you sell the old house. A more manageable property might better for him....

In conclusion

The key is therefore to set out the options and negotiate, failing which you may have to obtain a court order for access and an injunction to prevent him from returning, while providing suitable temporary accommodation.

A vital part in this is reassuring him that he can return, which might involve your solicitor confirming that, the "friend" who "grassed " might be your link, Social Services, a paid mediator, or in some cases pay for lawyer to advise him ( as long as this does not expose you to other litigation!).

Or if working around him is not practical, you can take the robust view, here's a notice, here's where you are going, agree, or we go to court.

tbs624

Of course most Rent Act Ts are likely to be elderly ( or heading that way)- otherwise known as STBO. They are of course right to be suspicious of their LLs intentions - many are all too aware that the LL will welcome them surrendering their tenancy or passing away so that the property's true value can be realised. ( Absolutely not a dig at the OP, but as a general note)

It is not for the LL to point the T/ the healthcare supporters in the direction of a hospice etc, although it is good practice for the LL to keep in touch with the TRO so that/she has the full picture rather than just that of the T and a well-meaning neighbour/family member. Social Services teams are only too aware of those LLs who seem concerned about getting an elderly ill T some form of "care", in an attempt to avoid their own responsibility to provide that suitable alternative accommodation.

As for a "small rented caravan on the drive" - really? In February, for an elderly man just out of hospital?

I can see the local rag headline now.

propertyman

You are automatically taking the tenants side and looking at the suggestions in that light. I think it fair to also assume that jamie11 is in earnest.

The commercial approach is you are going there for x, for y long and if you don't agree then it's off the county court, even to seek discretionary grounds for possession.

It is easy to cherry pick the post for nuggets- I have made it clear that any approach to third parties is to ensure that he is supported and represented and that it is key that he reassures them that he will be returning.

I know as recently as last year, in representing a tenant , that the social services are able
a: to discern the intentions of the landlord.
b: they have an interest even obligation in seeing that a vulnerable tenant is not sent back to an unsuitable home.

That (clearly) unknown to you those social service do contact landlords to discuss these matters as part of the process of discharge.

Bear in mind that the Decent Homes initiative means that Social services have developed a lot of experience in the last 10 years in dealing with recalcitrant tenants.

Who said a caravan in February- turn off the Daily Mail mindset- if you meant it as a joke a smiley might help.

It's feasible that, say, electrical works are done urgently and other issues discussed with the EHO for a later time. Not only is it a solution I have used twice but also as a daytime respite area. I remember one lady then in her 80's who after 3 weeks had become quite fond of her caravan- she joked about going to join the circus to read fortunes- 2 months earlier she was for nailing the door to keep everyone out.

So can we temper the discussion with options over opinion, and let the OP, the tenant and his support decide which might work.

jamie11

Thanks everyone.

My main criteria is to cover my own back of course, I have no intention of harassing the tenant nor trying to end his tenancy, I'm as aware of the 1977 rent act as you are.

We have a history of over 17 years with this guy, he has always been cantankerous and he has not changed now that he's in his dotage.

I will do the essential repairs as requested but that is as far as I go until I have possession.

cottonhead

Sounds like a social issue from what you say, rather than the tennant just being obstructive or trying to hide something. Does he have any family that you could speak with and get them to reassure him that you are not trying to get rid of him, but help to improve the living conditions. Is he Ok health wise ? Does he have any care from social services? If so then his care manager could have a word. Or... How about suggesting he take a short break - send him off on an old folks trip somewhere nice ( pay for it out the rent) and sell it to him that way ? ! Easier said than done though. Some folks just won't listen even when its in their own interest.