Grave memorials - Warning when parent has re-married.

socks_uk

I am just wanting to make people aware of the 'laws' or 'rules' regarding placing headstones on a parent's grave after they have remarried.

My mum died aged 56 in 1995 and was buried in a double grave with my dad due to be buried on top when the time came. In 2007 (aged 73) my dad met a new lady friend and within a year they got married. Sadly, my dad died of cancer in January 2009 aged 75. As she was now next-of-kin, my step-mother arranged the funeral and my sister, 2 brothers and I helped with the funeral costs. My sister and I had the headstone removed from my mum's grave in preparation for the funeral, which went ahead without too many problems.

My sister and I then started to discuss having the headstone engraved with my dad's details in the space left at the time of my mum's engraving when we hit across the problem.

BECAUSE OUR STEP-MOTHER HAD ARRANGED THE FUNERAL AND THE BILL HAD GONE TO HER, ONLY SHE HAD THE RIGHT TO ERECT A MEMORIAL!

For many families this may not cause a problem but our step-mother wanted her name engraved on the headstone too, but what added to the problem was that there wasn't enough room for my dad's name, just initials & name he was known as. See below...

IN
LOVING MEMORY OF
M**** C*******
loving wife, mam & nana
DIED ??th DEC. 1995
AGED 56 YEARS.
We'll always miss you.
?. ?. C******* (TED)
Loving husband, dad & grandad
DIED ?th JAN. 2009
AGED 75 YEARS.

The stone mason had told her about the shortage of engraving space, we had even suggested an engraving on the base or an engraved memorial flower vase from her. The talks ended up only via the stonemason but they have now ended as the stonemason has gone bankrupt so I now have the headstone in my garden.

My mum & dad had been happily married for 38 years when my mum died of a heart attack at the age of 56. When my dad died in 2009 he had been the dad to my sister for 48 years, my dad for 45 years, my brother's dad for 43 years and my younger brother's dad for 38 years. He was husband to our step-mother for less than a year. When she dies, the grave rights pass to her next-of-kin who will be one of her children.

Without a change in the law, we will never be able to erect a suitable memorial on our parents grave. I have contacted my local MP, although I'm not sure what he can do for us. I just don't want other step-families to find themselves in the same position.

PLEASE THINK WHO WILL HAVE THEIR NAME ON THE FUNERAL DIRECTORS BILL!

zzzLazyDaisy

I am sorry for your loss, and I can see why this is upsetting for you.

But your dad's new wife is his next of kin. It is her responsibility to arrange the funeral and to make the decisions. It was good of you to help with the costs, but the bill would go to her, as she is the one giving the instructions. If she had decided not to have him buried with your mum, there would have been nothing you could have done about it.

As it is, she has lost her husband, and she is also grieving. Of course she wants some recognition of the place she held in your Dad's life.

Would it be possible to have a new headstone made, so that you could have a larger headstone, or perhaps smaller writing could be used, so that everyone could be mentioned?

socks_uk

Thank you for your reply. It was long enough ago that my family are no longer in the grieving stage. The cost of a new headstone is beyond our purses, especially as my sister and I have lost the money already paid to the now bankrupt stonemason. My step-mother was/is (I'm not sure if she is still alive herself) on benefits so would have got whatever she was entitled to to help with funeral costs as well as what me and my siblings chipped in. My dad had also told us he had money put aside for his funeral but my step-mother said she needed that to live on... but even if she had used my dad's money her name is still on the grave rights to our mum & dad.

I'm just here to warn others to try to avoid the situation we are in.

zzzLazyDaisy

socks_uk wrote: »

I'm just here to warn others to try to avoid the situation we are in.

Yes, I understand this, and I am sorry that I didn't make myself clear.

My point is that someone in your position cannot avoid this happening, because only the new wife has authority to make the decisions about her husband's funeral, and so the bill will always go to her. So unless there is some change in the law, in your situation the children will always find themselves in the position that you are in. There is no way to avoid it.

So the only way for the children to have a say in what happens, would be by amicable agreement with the new wife, which has proved to be impossible in your case.

I do understand what you are going through. My mum died a few years ago. My Dad has re-married and when he dies, he won't be buried with my mum, but in a separate double plot with space for his second wife when she goes (I am assuming he will go first, as she is a lot younger than him, but I suppose I shouldn't assume that). TBH I am not really concerned about this as I accept that life goes on, but I can see that some people would be upset about that too.

Dollardog

I have a similar problem over grave rights, although not because of remarriage.
When my maternal grandmother died, my mother and her sister bought plots at the side of my grandmothers grave, they were plots for 4.
My mother was buried in hers in 1975 and my father buried with my mother some years later. I was the executor of the will but the funeral directors insisted that the plot had to be put in my brother's name as he was the eldest son, he is older than me too. I was very upset about that because it meant that if my brother dies before me, the rights will pass to my sister in law and my right to be buried in the same grave is dependant on my sister in law agreeing to it. My bother didn't see it as being a problem at the time, but it really upset me. At the time of my dad's death, we were getting on a lot better than we are now and I don't particularly get on all that well with my sister in law and have no contact with her children, one of which is from a previous marriage.
If my brother dies and is buried in the family plot, my sister in law could well decide she wants to be buried in there with him, or her family, who the right will pass to on her death, might decide to bury her with him. I would be left with nowhere to be buried and I don't have any other family, I'm not married.

I have a house that I inherited from my parents which my brother wants me to leave to his son. I haven't yet made a will but I am seriously considering making one and putting some clause in saying that he will only inherit the house if I get buried with my parents and if not I leave the house to someone else or even to a charity. I don't know if this can be done though or though I would have thought so if it is done through a solicitor.

socks_uk

I didn't realise the whole 'grave rights' law was so complicated. A few years down the line (or maybe already if she has already died) my mum & dad's grave will be owned by no blood relative to either of them.

socks_uk

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Yes, I understand this, and I am sorry that I didn't make myself clear.

My point is that someone in your position cannot avoid this happening, because only the new wife has authority to make the decisions about her husband's funeral, and so the bill will always go to her.

BUT, if my elder sister had rung the funeral director and then paid the bill in full and us pay her back, who's name would have been on the bill and whose name would be on the grave rights?

zzzLazyDaisy

The grave rights to my mum and my much younger sister belong to my Dad, so I suppose they will pass to his new wife and then on to her family. I have never thought of that, but it seems a bit weird - I can understand and accept that her relationship with my Dad gives her rights over his funeral/grave, but she and her family never knew my mum or my sister, and as it is a separate grave, I can't see any reason for the rights passing to her.

For me it is academic - after all, what is she going to do with these 'rights' anyway? But I guess it could cause upset in certain circumstances.

I would say that the best way to deal with potential issues is for the person to deal with it in their lifetime. In Op's case, her Dad could have had the original headstone replaced with a larger one so there would be enough room for the inscription when the time came. Also, many people leave instructions in their will about the funeral - that they wish to be cremated for example, so at least everyone knows what the deceased's wishes are.

zzzLazyDaisy

socks_uk wrote: »

BUT, if my elder sister had rung the funeral director and then paid the bill in full and us pay her back, who's name would have been on the bill and whose name would be on the grave rights?

The new wife's.

If your elder sister rang the electricity company and paid your Dad's wife's electricity bill for her, and then you paid your sister back, it wouldn't mean that you had any rights over your Dad's wife's electricity supply/account.

She is the wife. It is her responsibility to arrange the funeral, and the bill would go to her. If she didn't pay the bill, the funeral director would pursue her. If the family help with the costs of the funeral, that doesn't change anything.

It would only be if (for example) the wife gave written instructions that the Funeral Director was to deal with you and that you would be paying the bill (with your agreement) that the bill would go to you.

When my younger sister died I made all the arrangements as my mum and dad were not capable of dealing with the funeral. The Funeral Director did everything through me, but I couldn't sign the paperwork, it had to be signed off by my Dad and the bill went to him.

socks_uk

In all our naivety we didn't see we would come across this issue. I just hope I don't move house too often as the gravestone now in my garden is quite heavy!

Looby_-_Lou_2

The way to solve this is for the owner of the Exclusive Right of Burial to name who they wish it to pass to on their death. I believe you can name more than one person.

As with all things associated with death and burial it is best if possible to discuss all eventualities when everyone is relatively fit and healthy. If necessary include your wishes in your will if you don't trust those left to carry them out.

I manage a cemetery in a small village and find these situations heartrending - what gives one child or grandchild or second spouse more rights over where someone should be buried?

I often hear but she never bothered when he was alive from both sides - and on occasion know for a fact that no one bothered in life but it was the neighbours and friends who visited and cared for the deceased.

To the OP I would take advice from someone other than a stonemason - had your parents Purchased the Exclusive Right of Burial? If so you might have more rights than you think - talk to the burial authority (Church or Cemetery manager) where your parents are buried - they make the decision on who erects what memorial and not the stonemason.

L-L