MSE News: 'I'm on benefits but I'm no scrounger'

rellarips

Perhaps it is harder to live on £11k than a wage, for some people. It will depend on the size of the family, the commitments that were made when that person was in employment (which do probably include decisions to have children, and decisions on what house to buy etcetera).

What is an acceptable amount to live on, in reality rather than in (government) theory?

Trying to be logical here, I'm thinking that £11k would include child tax credits (CTC). As I understand things, CTC is payable in lieue of working tax credits (WTC) if a person isn't working. I also believe that CTC can be lower than WTC, dependant on the salary you are earning when you are working. Theres a lot of number crunching involved, but I gather that someone in a lower paid job can have their wages buffered considerably through WTC. That will make them much better off in work (as it should be!).

Zigzig, what you are saying is that someone in work may be as badly off as someone claiming benefits. This is probably true if you are not entitled to WTC. This is also probably true if you earn above the amount required to make a claim for HB and CTB. These are the loopholes of the system; they pay better for some to sit on their bums at home than to get a job. But that won't apply to everyone, as plenty of people will be worse off any living on a minimal amount.

I do see your point zig, and can see the issue you're raising. I think in Ross' case he's worse off out of work by the sounds of things. Not worse off than some others in work, and thats a separate issue to tackle about the system, as it is really letting down many honest working men and women. I appreciate you for standing up for these people.

Now, £11k a year would be just under £917 per month. It sounds like a lot to just 'spend' after the roof has been paid for so I am confused. If that is the amount that is given in benefits, I myself can't quite work out how it could be that much from the top of my head. I think JSA for a couple is £105 a week and there will be the child tax credit, probably about £90 a week. Child benefit is £20 for the first child then a lower amount for the following ones, right?
The only other benefits I can think of is HB and CTB. The HB is capped these days for private tenants so it doesn't usually cover the full amount. The system used to unfairly overpay some people (laughable) but it's gone the other way now making many worse off.
I can get the figures to add up in my head if I include HB and CT on lower amounts.
That would leave about £425 for a family for the month; food, gas, electric, water, phone bill, TV, transport, clothes, emergencies.

This figure needs to be compared impartially with:
1. A family with one working FT on minimum wage and in reciept of WTC and any associated benefits, and one a stay at home Mum with toddlers.
2. A family with both parents working to minimum wage and WTC and any associated benefits.
3. Individuals without children or family to support, on minimum wage, and their total income.

That way there could be a discussion about the fairness of the system relating to amounts. Which is a separate issue to the one that this thread is supposed to be discussing.

thedrsmisses

again no one is "getting" the point Its not about the MONEY its about the STIGMA! I have already stated that we claim everything we are entitled to.

you want a ballpark figure??? that figure is a smidgen over 11k! neither me nor Ross will be telling you what benefits that includes as it is none of your business. I do not appreciate me or my family being called liars either, just wanting to keep some form of dignity, but then i guess we are benefits claimant so i shouldn't really expect anything else!

the government and press would have you believe that everyone on benefits is on 26k or more, which has in turn caused more stigma and benefit bashing allowing them to "do the right thing" and bring in the cap with out to much public opposition apart from the scum like my family obviously, which in turn has caused people to question what you are claiming and if you are entitled to what you do get. That is the point that Ross wanted to make and everyone asking for a "ballpark" figure has proven that point. This country and the attitudes of most of the "working class" saddens me deeply.

And to those of you banging on about how you PAY YOUR TAXES so did Ross.

its a shame that only a few of you can see what he was trying to do, stand up for the little people try and get himself heard so that someone may hear and want to help make what is for most a degrading situation to be just a little bit easier to bare, to make the benefits system easier for people to understand, and to work towards losing the stigma attached to being a benefits claimant a thing of the past. I truly am proud of him for that it wasn't an easy thing for him to do and its not easy for having to see him belittled on a public forum because he wont declare every single benefit he receives! do you not think he struggles enough on a daily basis without being called a liar on here, without being treated like an idiot that can not justify and back up his claims, he can but he shouldn't need to. It is not open for discussion and never will be, if you do not like that fact then i suggest you dont read this thread any further.

let me ask you, would knowing what proportion of our benefit was made up of housing benefit make the discrimination better or worse?

yet again guilty until proven innocent

goodcommonsense

CTC is not paid in lieu of WTC. They are distinct benefits. Incapacity is far higher than JSA.

I am able to work out a breakdown (or just a figure) of what Ross should be receiving based on the information given, but I would rather not do that without his agreement. Perhaps he is not receiving his full entitlement?

goodcommonsense

thedrsmisses wrote: »

again no one is "getting" the point Its not about the MONEY its about the STIGMA! I have already stated that we claim everything we are entitled to.

you want a ballpark figure??? that figure is a smidgen over 11k!

Would it be helpful if I provided a breakdown of what you should be entitled to? Perhaps you are not receiving everything as you believe?

kateman

my husband has just been changed from incapacity benifit to the new fangled work thing. he had a work related accident 15 years ago,it was a lifting accident. he has nerve and disc damage,scar tissue damage and is in 24hour a day pain, he is taking morphine plus other strong pain tablet,s.he has also had 8 mini strokes,has type 2 diabiteis,a liver complaint and on 8th of march he has an appointment to see his new employment and support adviser. so i think it,s going to go well, dont you,,not.

Mrs_Arcanum

poppy10 wrote: »

How can something be both explicit and implicit?

Anyway, seems like Ross doesn't want to answer the basic questions despite stating that he wanted to clear things up. His household income is far in excess of the £11,000 he claimed. I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt earlier on, but I think it's becoming clearer now that he is flat-out lying.

Where? He has specifically said he was turned down for DLA so gets nothing for that?

rellarips

goodcommonsense wrote: »

CTC is not paid in lieu of WTC. They are distinct benefits. Incapacity is far higher than JSA.

I am able to work out a breakdown (or just a figure) of what Ross should be receiving based on the information given, but I would rather not do that without his agreement. Perhaps he is not receiving his full entitlement?

Perhaps if you are a benefits advisor then you will be bound by client confidentiality and should be discussing this well away from a public forum. Otherwise, if you are someone just wanting to help, it might just be a little more sensible to suggest that Ross sees a professional advisor to check his benefits, if you suspect he may be entitled to more. Kindness of heart need have no further comment to make than that, and it's touching to see that you are so kindly concerned that he recieves the correct amounts.

zigzigzag

rellarips wrote: »

Perhaps it is harder to live on £11k than a wage, for some people.

...

Zigzig, what you are saying is that someone in work may be as badly off as someone claiming benefits.

But you can't compare £11k to a wage, when a wage usually has to pay for housing, and we don't know whether the £11k does!

Re your second point above, NO I am not saying that! I have no idea! largely because the questions remain unanswered! Ross said it was harder to live on £11k than a wage, and all I'm saying is that as readers we can't compare the two, because we don't know if the £11k has to pay for housing/ct.

zigzigzag

Mrs_Arcanum wrote: »

Where? He has specifically said he was turned down for DLA so gets nothing for that?

To clarify yet again - we're talking about housing benefit and council tax benefit - not DLA.

Dunroamin

For information, LHA for a 3 bed house in Southampton is £179 pw (c £8.5k) and council tax £1,200/400 pa. If the £11,000 doesn't include these, the family will actually be receiving around £21,000 net pa.