Storage Heaters on E7 or Electric Radiators on standard rate?

HappyMJ

23 degrees is very warm. Is that the temperature on the thermostat or the temperature from a thermometer placed in the room. My house loses so much heat at 23 degrees that is costs much more than £750 a year to heat as the heating is running almost constantly. You can save 10% of your heating bill by reducing the temperature by 1 degree. My thermostat and the room temperature is about 18 degrees and my heating bill is half of yours. To me 18 degrees feels fine.

thills

I should add, while I would prefer to have gas & appreciate electricity is probably 2.5 x as costly, but not at night! I didn't pay a lot of money for installing GCH, there is nothing to go wrong with the system & I only need 1 bill.
For me, I pay for heat when I want it only & except for when it's sub zero, where I time it to start 20 minutes before I'm home, have no need to time the heat to come on in the afternoon, when I get in, takes 15 minutes to warm up to 20c

thills

Yes, I do like it very warm & I'm OK with the extra cost, I never like to wear a jumper or anything.
23c is on the stat, but it's fairly accurate & I have 2 stats. Of course, it's a little colder by your feet.
For me, & it's personal likes,18c would be utter misery!

Bidello

Hi again.

Been a little busy with the renovation works in my property and now I'm close to paint the rooms and installing new heaters.

Interesting comments Thills. While I am the same as you, like the house warm and cosy and wearing a jumper when it's cold it's not an option - my 15 months baby needs to be in more than 18 degrees for sure - I do think 23 degrees might be a bit too much, probably 21 would do the trick for me.

Anyway, I am still unconvinced about relying on panel heaters only for the whole property. They do give the best flexibility indeed, and probably are the best option for bedrooms.

Not so sure about my downstairs floor, an open space kitchen/living room with a heat requirement (calculated taking into account dimension, windows area, insulation etc) between 3.5 and 4.5 KW. The storage heaters currently installed are manual Dimplex XT12, XT18 and XT24, for a total of 7650 KW. I would imagine such heaters would keep the area very warm, but as I said in previous posts I have to replace them as the internal insulation is broken, one heater doesn't work at all (heating element need changing that is) and the outer cases for some reason have been hit repetitively with something heavy!

I like the idea of storage heaters plus some electric radiator for extra heat when required, but was also thinking about storage heaters with an internal convector, which would be the best of both world: you top up the storage heater at night and when back home in the evening you can turn the convector on for extra heat.

Done some research and found (as many of you know already) that storage heaters come in manual and automatic fashion, but didn't know you could get them with a convector also (though that the only option in that sense were the DuoHeat and other similar products).

As I said before while I like the look of the DuoHeat I don't trust them in therms of retaining the same heat as a standard storage heater - if only for the simple reason that they have less brick mass in them, so I'd have to install more DuoHeat heaters in my living room to be safe.

Thus, automatic storage heaters with convectors might be a good solution for me. Only bad point is that they need double wiring - I'd have to run some new wires from the main ring to power the convectors, and not sure whether I can still do that at this stage.

Well, two question then: do people have any experience/suggestion with combined storage/convector heaters?

Also, does anybody know whether Sector still produces storage heaters? Cannot find them and have been told they're good and cheaper that big brand names (a 3.4 KW storage heater is just TOO expensive!).

Cheers:)

HappyMJ

Bidello wrote: »

Interesting comments Thills. While I am the same as you, like the house warm and cosy and wearing a jumper when it's cold it's not an option - my 15 months baby needs to be in more than 18 degrees for sure - I do think 23 degrees might be a bit too much, probably 21 would do the trick for me.

NHS advice is to keep babies in rooms between 16 and 20 degrees and 18 is the ideal temperature. They are at risk of overheating at higher temperatures and can't exactly throw clothes off to cool down. It's much easier for a baby to heat itself up than cool itself down (by sweating and evaporation).

Bidello

Thanks for the insights Happymj.
Indeed a baby has a higher ratio fat/body mass than an adult, which helps in heat retention and allows to tolerate lower temperatures. However, babies hands and feet tend to cool down quickly in sub-20 ambient temps, hence the need of something closer to 20 degrees.
It is true that babies produce heat rapidly but you want to avoid forcing their heat production metabolism at too a high rate since it is weakening. A prolonged stimulation of such heat release mechansm due to a low ambient temperature might lead to a lowered immune response on the long run.

Just a couple of things to consider when adjusting a thermostat ;-)

21 degrees is probably a bit too high, 20 should do. NHS recommendation is a guideline, ideal temp is closer to 20 than 18

Well apart from all that, any experience at all with storage convector heaterd (other than duoheat)?
:-))

Ada3050

Duoheat also need double wiring, although if you have a socket near by that would work also. I looked at the duoheat and came to the same conclusion, the core heat stored would be less than my old storage rad.

I would have thought it would be cheaper to by a stand alone heater than a combined storage heater. Looking at the prices of combined heaters they seem very pricey.

Bidello

Sorry for the delay in replying...

Yes Ada3050, combined storage heaters seem pricey but I found a very good offer locally and they are coming out at almost the same price of standard storage heaters (been comparing prices on the net and locally).

Anyway, I've done some calculations and got some figures I'd like people to have a look at.

I am currently on ScottishPower Standard, with standing charge:

day rate: 14.90p
night rate: 6.55p
daily standing charge: 27.11p (!!)

This is the current set up:

• kitchen/living room: storage heaters 1.7KW, 2.5KW, 3.4KW
  
• Three bedrooms: Panel heaters: 1.5 KW, 1.5KW, 1.0KW

All these heaters need replacing (half of them is broken, the others aren't much better).

I've calculated how much it'd cost me to run an updated version of the current system, that is, three new storage heaters and three new panel heaters.

Storage heaters: assuming these are on during the cheap rate period:

• 7.6KW for 7 hours = 53.2 KWh = £3.48/day

Also, if one of the storage heaters had a built-in convector (am interested in the 3.4KW model with 2.0KW convector) and I was to use it say a couple of hours in the evenings, that'd be (full rate period):

• 2.0KW for 2 hours = 4KWh = £0.60/day

- Panel heaters: assuming I only use them for 2 hours at night during full rate period:

• 4.0KW for 2 hours = 8KWh = £1.2/day

Hopefully I did everything right :-)

Of course I might have to use more the panels and convector, and surely modern storage heaters won't be on for 7 hours on a row, I'd imagine the automatic ones would turn themselves off when reaching the required temp.

Anyway, this calculation comes up to a scary £5.6 per day (rounded including daily standing charge), and that's only heating, without taking into account showers, cooking, water heater etc.

That's £168 per month to run the heating! And considering that during weekends we'd probable end up using the panel heaters more, it all gets even scarier...


After reading about Thills panel heaters, I have done another calculation:

(of course the figures for heating the bedrooms stay the same)

If I bought three 2.0KW panel heaters for the kitchen/living room and I ran them when needed, using full price tariff of course, it would cost me the same £3.48 if I kept the heaters on for 3.9 hours.

In other words:

• Three 2.0KW panel heaters = 6.0 KW for 3.9 hours = 23.3KWh = £3.48/day

If we're home by 5:30 pm and time the heaters to come on just 15 min before that, and also have them maintain a temperature of, say, 20-21 ºC, we might be able to save something as they should't be on all time.

The same is also true for storage heaters, as previously mentioned.

To sum things up:

With storage heaters I will spend £3.48 per day to charge them, and might have to spend some more in the evenings for top-ups (built in convector or cheap freestanding heater).

With panel heaters I will spend the same £3.48 if I only use them roughly 4 hours per day.

So if my calculations are right, am I going to face a >£150 per month expense on electricity whatever heating system I choose?

How do you manage to spend "only" £750 per year Thills?

Is my electricity provider way dearer that others?

Thank for you help folks!

Bidello

Sorry to insist but... anyone?:o

HappyMJ

Bidello wrote: »

Sorry for the delay in replying...

Yes Ada3050, combined storage heaters seem pricey but I found a very good offer locally and they are coming out at almost the same price of standard storage heaters (been comparing prices on the net and locally).

Anyway, I've done some calculations and got some figures I'd like people to have a look at.

I am currently on ScottishPower Standard, with standing charge:

day rate: 14.90p
night rate: 6.55p
daily standing charge: 27.11p (!!)

This is the current set up:

• kitchen/living room: storage heaters 1.7KW, 2.5KW, 3.4KW
• Three bedrooms: Panel heaters: 1.5 KW, 1.5KW, 1.0KW

All these heaters need replacing (half of them is broken, the others aren't much better).

I've calculated how much it'd cost me to run an updated version of the current system, that is, three new storage heaters and three new panel heaters.

Storage heaters: assuming these are on during the cheap rate period:

• 7.6KW for 7 hours = 53.2 KWh = £3.48/day

Also, if one of the storage heaters had a built-in convector (am interested in the 3.4KW model with 2.0KW convector) and I was to use it say a couple of hours in the evenings, that'd be (full rate period):

• 2.0KW for 2 hours = 4KWh = £0.60/day

- Panel heaters: assuming I only use them for 2 hours at night during full rate period:

• 4.0KW for 2 hours = 8KWh = £1.2/day

Hopefully I did everything right :-)

Of course I might have to use more the panels and convector, and surely modern storage heaters won't be on for 7 hours on a row, I'd imagine the automatic ones would turn themselves off when reaching the required temp.

Anyway, this calculation comes up to a scary £5.6 per day (rounded including daily standing charge), and that's only heating, without taking into account showers, cooking, water heater etc.

That's £168 per month to run the heating! And considering that during weekends we'd probable end up using the panel heaters more, it all gets even scarier...


After reading about Thills panel heaters, I have done another calculation:

(of course the figures for heating the bedrooms stay the same)

If I bought three 2.0KW panel heaters for the kitchen/living room and I ran them when needed, using full price tariff of course, it would cost me the same £3.48 if I kept the heaters on for 3.9 hours.

In other words:

• Three 2.0KW panel heaters = 6.0 KW for 3.9 hours = 23.3KWh = £3.48/day

If we're home by 5:30 pm and time the heaters to come on just 15 min before that, and also have them maintain a temperature of, say, 20-21 ºC, we might be able to save something as they should't be on all time.

The same is also true for storage heaters, as previously mentioned.

To sum things up:

With storage heaters I will spend £3.48 per day to charge them, and might have to spend some more in the evenings for top-ups (built in convector or cheap freestanding heater).

With panel heaters I will spend the same £3.48 if I only use them roughly 4 hours per day.

So if my calculations are right, am I going to face a >£150 per month expense on electricity whatever heating system I choose?

How do you manage to spend "only" £750 per year Thills?

Is my electricity provider way dearer that others?

Thank for you help folks!

Bidello wrote: »

Sorry to insist but... anyone?:o

The rates you have chosen are expensive. My night rate is 4.49 pence per kWh and my day rate is 15.15 pence per kWh and the standing charge by way of increased unit charge on the first 2 kWh's per day works out at 19.02 pence per day.

The full usage would only ever be used on the absolute coldest winter's day...i.e minus 10 or so. When it's warmer you will use less. Some heat will remain in the storage heater for the next night and not cost quite as much the next night to recharge. My annual usage is only about 4,000kWh for one room lounge room followed by bedroom technically 2 rooms. You have 6 rooms all requiring heat. If the bedrooms are above the rooms with the storage heating then it is unlikely you will require much heat in them as the heat will transfer from downstairs to upstairs. I only really need 15 minutes or so of heat on a normal mild evening to give the bedroom a boost of heat. 2 hours of heat would make the room far too warm.

The 4 hours per day/evening calculation works on weekdays....but fails miserably on the weekends when you are home all day requiring 12 hours of heating. When I lived in a property with storage heating I only ever turned it on on Friday and Saturday night and used peak rate electric heating and the coal fire all the other times which is similar to what I do now except I don't have any storage heaters.

And another thing storage heating is not very good at keeping a room temperature of 21 degrees. You need to expect it will be cooler at about 18 degrees and 16 degrees on very cold days. It isn't that powerful. You will need to cover yourself in a rug.