Condensing Boilers Are Rubbish!

boozercruiser

ThumbRemote wrote: »

Yes, it's a condensing combi boiler - a Worcester Bosch Greenstar. It has two modes; normal (in which a small internal tank of hot water is maintained, so when you turn on the hot tap this is sent immediately) and Eco (no tank, so it takes slightly longer for hot water at the tap).

It seems the OPs boiler doesn't have this feature, which is unfortunate. I guess that's a limitation of that boiler though, not condensing boilers in general.

Thank you for your very informative reply.:T

Mine is a 18/25kW Heat Slave Model with a manufacturers know doubt well insulated (To answer Azari) water tank which is part of the Boiler Insides.

The Boiler does have a 7 day twin digital programmer which operates but heat and hot water. Like I say.....if I do not want the heating on then I can click in the Hot Water Tank to provide lovely hot water.

The thing is, my Wife and I are Pensioners with just the two of us living in our lovely rural bungalow here in West Wales.

Every morning this time of year the heating goes on first thing on around 21 to 22 degrees. We do not even have to click the programmer for Hot Water as it is already there after around 10 minutes.

So then, we have our Showers from our 2 (His and Hers;) Thermostatic Showers and wash whatever dishes are to be done right after breakfast.

After that, generally speaking we have no need to keep the Hot Water going in the tank, and if I could I would shut it off.

The rest of the day the kettle satisfies all our needs for tea/coffee and the odd dish/cup cleaning if necessarily.

Though we would probably just put the hot water on to do the main evening dishes.

Hands can be washed under a cold running tap and soap no problem.

By the time I run a hot tap I have washed my hands anyway by the time the hot water comes through to our rather far from the boiler taps.

Obviously this time of the year our heating is on from around 7.00AM to around 1.00AM the next day. This means that the Hot Water tank is keeping the hot water hot for around 18 hours a day. very wasteful.

If I try for hot water first thing in the morning without swithching the programmer to call for heating or hot water then the water coming out is only rather luke warm.

So the water has cooled down a lot = WASTEFUL = CASH LOST:mad: And this is going on all ruddy day long.

Another last point while I think on. My Wife and I holiday a lot or visit Family and friends on Merseyside and London.

This time of year we leave the heating on a low setting and/or there is a frostsat in the Garage.

So...we are away perhaps for a week or two...the heating switches on....no complaints about that....but the Hot Water as well?

NO.....NO....NO!:eek:

PS...just done a check on the price of Heating Oil and it has now reached around 64p a Litre. My Tank holds 2600 litr's so to fill up us around £1600.

Me being a poor pensioner like....LOL....is it any wonder I do no want to pay for hot water I am not going to use?

Azari

The important factor is the size of the reservoir tank.

If it is only a couple of litres it isn't going to cost much to keep it up to temperature if it is properly lagged.

I must say, I don't understand why a boiler capable of outputting 25KW even needs a reservoir tank. That's two and a half times as much as the most powerful electric shower so it should be able to produce plenty of hot water on demand. Then again, I'm not a plumber - I'm only looking at the problem from the POV of applied physics.

boozercruiser

Azari wrote: »

The important factor is the size of the reservoir tank.

If it is only a couple of litres it isn't going to cost much to keep it up to temperature if it is properly lagged.

I must say, I don't understand why a boiler capable of outputting 25KW even needs a reservoir tank. That's two and a half times as much as the most powerful electric shower so it should be able to produce plenty of hot water on demand. Then again, I'm not a plumber - I'm only looking at the problem from the POV of applied physics.

The tank holds 13 GALLONS....kept hot 18 hours a day.

Still no problem then Azari eh?;)

My Boiler is a COMBINATION BOILER.....with a Heatslave 13 Gallon Hot Water Tank. This is the way that they are made.

If it just supplied Hot Water on demand....no problem.

This is just the way these particular condensing boilers are. Why do you think I am complaining End Of.:D

This was all part of John Blasted Prescots (God...I hate that man!) plan!

ThumbRemote

It sounds more like you've got an unsuitable boiler for your needs fitted, than anything to do with John Prescott.

Azari

boozercruiser wrote: »

The tank holds 13 GALLONS....kept hot 18 hours a day.

Still no problem then Azari eh?;)

My Boiler is a COMBINATION BOILER.....with a Heatslave 13 Gallon Hot Water Tank. This is the way that they are made.

If it just supplied Hot Water on demand....no problem.

This is just the way these particular condensing boilers are. Why do you think I am complaining End Of.:D

This was all part of John Blasted Prescots (God...I hate that man!) plan!

OK, I agree you have a problem.

It's not Prescott's fault, though, nor is it in any way related to the fact that the boiler is a condensing model. It's the fault of the person who chose the boiler. (Or the fault of the person who sold it for not providing enough information.)

Clearly, for someone whose hot water use is all centred around an hour or so each day any system using a tank is less than ideal and one where the tank is outside the heated area, particularly so.

Andy_L

boozercruiser wrote: »

My Boiler is a COMBINATION BOILER.....with a Heatslave 13 Gallon Hot Water Tank. This is the way that they are made.

If it just supplied Hot Water on demand....no problem.

I though the who point of combis was that they only supplied hot water on demand & didn't have a hot water tank

boozercruiser

Azari wrote: »

OK, I agree you have a problem.

It's not Prescott's fault, though, nor is it in any way related to the fact that the boiler is a condensing model. It's the fault of the person who chose the boiler. (Or the fault of the person who sold it for not providing enough information.)

Clearly, for someone whose hot water use is all centred around an hour or so each day any system using a tank is less than ideal and one where the tank is outside the heated area, particularly so.

Well at the time of needing a new boiler and choosing a new Condensing Boiler...they ALL have to be Condensing now due to EU Green Save The Planet Loony Rules....I talked to a reputable company installing and selling boilers.

I was assured that Worcester was a top of the range boiler manufacturer and the one I purchased was the way to go.

With hind site.....I could perhaps have had a condensing type which did not have a combined hot water tank.

But I am where I am moaning about what I am moaning about.:D

Cheers:beer:

PS..I see your signature is Wibble...may I ask what that is all about?

cajef

According to the spec. if a twin channel programmer is fitted you should have independent control of heating and hot water.

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/homeowner/boilers/oil-boilers/greenstar-heatslave-1825/literature

boozercruiser

cajef wrote: »

According to the spec. if a twin channel programmer is fitted you should have independent control of heating and hot water.

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/homeowner/boilers/oil-boilers/greenstar-heatslave-1825/literature

Well Thank You Very Much for taking both the time and the trouble to provide all of this literature for me.:T

However, unless I am missing something I cannot see where it tells me that I have TOTAL control over whether the Heating and Hot Water are TOTALLY can be on or off separate.

Sure, I can set the Hot Water to come on and off for a few times a day.

I can set the Heating to come on and off a few times a day.

If I do not set for the Heating to come on at all but just for the Hot Water to come on, then sure, the Hot Water will come on just as often or not as I like it.

This works fine in the SUMMER when most of the time there is no need to switch the Heating on.

BUT.....if I just HAVE to have Heating then the Boiler will give the Hot Water priority and heat it up whether I want it or not.

I have been through the whole rigmarole with the manufacturer and the installer on this and they tell me this is just the way Worcester boilers work.

Other manufacturers...I dunno!

Perhaps I am missing something vital in the brochures/instructions that you have very kindly:T posted here.

I am in my sixtees, so I do miss something now and again. Ask my Missus!:rotfl:

Cheers...:beer:

P.S. Yes, according to the Manual the HW cylinderbuffer store (obviously very well insulated) actually holds 69 (Usually my favorite number!) (SIXTY RUDDY NINE) Litres of Water. I am thinking that perhaps the Boiler is coming on occasionally to keep the Water at the Lowest setting of 47 Degrees, which is still quite hot.

PS...PS...Note I received from Worcester..

"Your boiler is a heatslave that stores 10/15 gallons of hot water,principally the diverter directs water into slave tank,once temp satisfied it diverts it to heating system.

If system is cold then hot water takes priority, that's the way they are designed"....and...

"Finally to address your question regarding the timer on this appliance I can assure you the appliance and timer are operating correctly. This function is so as to react to a hot water demand as the appliance is a combi type boiler it needs to heat the water contained within the shell to a reasonable temperature to supply you with hot water on demand.

I apologise for any inconvenience caused with regard to this matter and hope this addresses the issues you have raised".

The above is from correspondence I had with Worcester when I first complained 3 years ago.

Nothing has changed!!

Delivery_Driver

boozercruiser wrote: »

The Tank is actually part of the boiler. The boiler is in the Garage so no part of any warmth coming from the Boiler is helping the house out.

That Hot Water being constantly kept hot when not needed just has to be both costly and wasteful.

Do you keep your Hot Water on all day and night then?

If so perhaps you are in a Money Saving Forum under false pretenses?

How are you a serious Money Saving Fan then?

Quite rude considering the poster was offering good advice.