PCN - 2nd Appeal Turned Down - What Next?

vax2002

[EMAIL="freedomofinformation@westlancs.gov.uk"]freedomofinformation@westlancs.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

request CCTV footage for the time you were present

Coupon-mad

TrickyWicky wrote: »

If you go to pepipoo, please don't take the "They can't do that cos blah blah" answers from amateurs (like those who say yellow line tickets aren't valid if your wheels don't touch the lines) but see if you can find someone who is a legal expert in the field.

:rotfl:
Never seen anyone on pepipoo say that!

And contractors such as NSL do answer informal appeals for Councils, but not after Notice to Owner stage.

Never heard of 'Chipside' though! Take it to pepipoo, JMMM, start a thread there with pictures of the PCN and all letters as you must not ignore this latest letter nor miss your appeal deadline. Do not miss a deadline for appeal due to waiting for a FOI reply!

Not seeing your thread here yet JMMM?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Register, read the FAQs like 'how to post pictures' and start a new topic there asap with your pictures shown.

taffy056

JMMM wrote: »

I have previously requested that they do that on my 1st and 2nd appeal but they said that the CCTV was only accessible, if it was a criminal act and a PCN does not come under that code. Also, in their reply, they brush over the fact that I was away for only 20 something minutes and stick with the 'did not display a valid ticket' charge.

Did they actuality say in writing that they can't show you the CCTV footage because of that reason? Think that might actually be an appeal point there, though the guys on Pepipoo will know. please register there and post your question, like others have said its vital you keep to deadlines now

JMMM

Vax2002/Taffy056.

Here are the exact words used in their letter to me:

“With regard to the CCTV cameras, the Council cannot view this footage in respect of a Penalty Charge Notice; the CCTV cameras are used as a crime deterrent and footage can only be viewed when a crime has been committed and a crime number obtained from the police. Parking contraventions are not criminal offences so ‘evidence’ from a CCTV cannot be viewed, nor used.”

Coupon-mad,

Thanks for the reminder. I’ve spent most of the day seeking employment today and I am just about to start preparing copies of my documents for pepipoo.

I don’t want to be slated for being unprepared and too slow when it comes to replying.

I registered last night, so will start the thread early evening. Thanks again.

Ted232

Question... I was issued a PCN for having moved my car and re-parked in the same place. The thing was that I parked in a two hour zone at 9:55 returned to my car at 11:45. I had not moved my car at all as I was physically at work the entire time. I did an informal appeal which was rejected. According to the "officer" he observed the valves of my tires in a different position. I obviously was nowhere near the car and it did not move the entire time. Can "officers" lie so blatantly?. So what can I do now?.

vax2002

You need to make a separate DEMAND for the cctv on the link above.
Describe the times and the area and what you were wearing state any refusal will result in an immediate case to the information commissioner.
They can not refuse to give you it if it is requested correctly.
You need to get this now as they can drag heals.
If it shows you at the meter, the appeal to the adjudicator is just about won, why would you walk to the machine and not take a free ticket in a free car park, ?
From the parking department, I would request copies of any maintenance logs, job sheets for the carpark and a copy of the Enforcement officers notes for the day as well as notes for any other officer that worked the car park that day.
As well as proof that the officer has been granted devolved powers with regard to issuing penalty notices.
Also place them on notice that the enforcement officer will be required as a witness at the adjudication for questioning.
If they refuse in writing the Adjudicator will refuse the penalty for the council refusing to provide information required.
quoting data protection is no excuse.
You will probably find most sheep just pay up and they have never been dragged that far.

vax2002

Ted232 wrote: »

Question... I was issued a PCN for having moved my car and re-parked in the same place. The thing was that I parked in a two hour zone at 9:55 returned to my car at 11:45. I had not moved my car at all as I was physically at work the entire time. I did an informal appeal which was rejected. According to the "officer" he observed the valves of my tires in a different position. I obviously was nowhere near the car and it did not move the entire time. Can "officers" lie so blatantly?. So what can I do now?.

Please start a new thread.

JMMM

Thanks Vax,

That all makes sense. I can also ask if the PCN officer checked the ticket machine while he was there, too. Although they will probably insist that there were others available. I will try and fit that in with any recommendations I receive on pepipoo.

TrickyWicky

Coupon-mad wrote: »

:rotfl:
Never seen anyone on pepipoo say that!

It was a generic description of the type of responses some people will give. I've had it loads of times when I've been out on the street, nearly always from people who don't even drive, never seen a highway code etc. I noticed a few duff replies on pepipoo a few weeks back but I'm not going to go on there and say my thing as the last time I got flamed every day etc. If they want to convince themselves they're right thats fine by me.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

And contractors such as NSL do answer informal appeals for Councils, but not after Notice to Owner stage.

I never said they didn't. What I did say is that 3 (actually maybe 4) years ago they were not supposed to (though that doesn't stop some rogue councils from bending the rules thinking that the public know no difference). Times change, I've no idea if thats still the case or not hence my recommendation to the op to go and look into it.

TrickyWicky

JMMM wrote: »

Thanks Vax,

That all makes sense. I can also ask if the PCN officer checked the ticket machine while he was there, too. Although they will probably insist that there were others available. I will try and fit that in with any recommendations I receive on pepipoo.

Here is one that'll have them stumped:

Ask for the CEO to attend your appeal. Ask for the CEO to provide timestamped test tickets from each machine in the car park. I'll bet they can't provide them. :A

Assuming their machines are made by parkeon, there is no excuse. If they're britepark I'm not sure if they do test tickets. You'll need to revisit the site to find out the make of the machines.