THANKS....not suspended for internet/email misuse

the_prophet

Hi CFC, thanks again, I sort of cannot wait to get there on monday now! I think I am going to have to gauge the meeting carefully though and some of my 'counter evidence' I will have to wait to present at a formal disciplinary meeting if they take it that far because that meeting seems to have a lot more protocol around it:- for example I can take someone with me, can call witnesses, It will be fully recorded etc... I wonder if this meeting on monday is either to see what else they can fit on me or for them to gauge how I am coping and reacting to the situation?? As I haven't had a specific list of the charges i.e I wonder if I will charge with what they can pin on me which I am not sure if it is going to be that much..
As far as the actual sites looked at, I am a middle aged mum of a toddler so no chance of any saucy sites for me!!!!! too knackered!!!!:rotfl:

CFC

Hi again Prophet, this meeting is to determine whether there is sufficient evidence to take you to a formal disciplinary hearing, or whether you have indeed actually done anything wrong. As soon as it starts to look like there is, they have a duty to stop the investigation and take it formal. At that point you then have extra rights and they will tell you exactly what they are accusing you of doing.

Believe me, this meeting on Monday should be fully recorded because if they take you to disciplinary they will rely on facts found within this meeting to establish the scenario they try to determine the truth around. This meeting is to decide whether the matter should go to disciplinary. That's why if for some insane reason (ie incompetence) they do not keep notes in the meeting, you should do so.

It would not be unreasonable at this stage to request if someone can attend the meeting with you, but you don't have the right at this stage to have that request granted, as you do at an actual hearing.

Just go in with a pleasant manner and answer their questions, then marshall your arguments against their statements of evidence. I would not recommend holding too much back for a more formal meeting. For example, I would also mention the fact that initially somebody told you that the IT dept. were impressed at how you are supposed to have done this - if you have ever been a bit technologically inept at work, and its been noticed by others, now would be a good time to raise this conversation and that fact.The conversations that they have previously had with you should not be allowed to disappear into a black hole, as it is in your interests to have them on the written notes of the meeting. For example they firstly say 40 odd, now it's 11 - you really need to raise that so it's noted before the situation enters into a more formal setting. All these notes, should it go pear shaped and eventually to a tribunal, will be used as part of the facts that the tribunal decides on.

Your best outcome is that they decide to look at their own practices and do not take this matter further for you - less stressful.

Very best of luck Prophet.

TokochickUK

could you take a tape recorder/dictaphone in? or would you also have to declare that you had one? i hope it goes well on monday x

changkra

Prophet?

There is no way this company has financial probs is there? i have read this thread from the beginning , i cannot help with it but you have many who seem to know what you should be doing but could they be taking this tactic to avoid paying redundancy? There is something at the back of this and it isn't what they are saying you've done, theres something else here. I would see if you can find any info out on how this company is doing. Good luck with your meeting and don't back down and don't allow them to manipulate you.

the_prophet

Changkra, yes I have thought similar... things are not as they seem and I don't know of the reason they would have began an investigation in the first place thanks for you good wished

the_prophet

CFC sorry to bother you on a sunday but I have really heard the point about laying everything out tomorrow. However I have made some points about company policy and being treated unequally to others and have got a document with the following
• Can you confirm under "the ‘Internet Unauthorised Use Policy’ – that all staff that have accessed the internet for personal use including higher and lower grade management are being investigated under the ‘Disciplinary Action Procedure’.

This is one of some 7 points. Do you think this is going a bit far??? I'm getting to the point where I probably have nothing to lose and if they are going to get rid of me they will find some way of doing it!! thanks for you input

the_prophet

Thanks so much to everyone who has contributed to this thread for you wonderful support. It is so much appreciated.

beanielou

Just found this thread.
Hope all goes well for you tomorrow.

CFC

the_prophet wrote:

CFC sorry to bother you on a sunday but I have really heard the point about laying everything out tomorrow. However I have made some points about company policy and being treated unequally to others and have got a document with the following
• Can you confirm under "the ‘Internet Unauthorised Use Policy’ – the ****** will not tolerate the use of the Internet for any of the following: - Accessing on - line personal services such as holidays, shopping, banking; and…." that all staff that have accessed the internet for personal use including higher and lower grade management are being investigated under the ‘Disciplinary Action Procedure’.

This is one of some 7 points. Do you think this is going a bit far??? I'm getting to the point where I probably have nothing to lose and if they are going to get rid of me they will find some way of doing it!! thanks for you input

It's not the best way to put it, I feel. It sounds a wee bit aggressive.

I'd go like this -

let them ask their questions, when they talk about using the internet, say I asked my line manager for permission, which was given, so yes I did.

Wait for their answer, then play it by ear. As I said before, if they say they say, your line manager cannot give permission, you say...well, the company does not say in the handbook that line managers cannot authorise this. As an employee, if I have any request or queries, I approach my line manager and abide by his decision. This is the normal behaviour expected from an employee. I rely on my line manager to know what he can authorise as he is a representative of the company management, same as if he authorises my holiday or requests me to do some particular piece of work.

Unless it actually states in the handbook that your line manager cannot authorise this, I think they're going to find it difficult.

If they go any further and say well you should have known you shouldn't do it, then you point out that it appears to be commonly accepted that people do use it for personal use as you have seen many other workers and managers, including high level managers, do so.

Act surprised that they are raising it at all, given that you've seen other people doing it. If they push it any further, then say, can you clarify that everyone else, whose names I can give you, is being investigated for the same thing, or is it only me?

PS - It did cross my mind that perhaps your working patterns don't fit the company any more and they'd quite like you to go; I do think that even if they pushed this to the limit they would find it enormously difficult to issue anything other than a verbal warning for the internet use. Accessing the manager's email with intent is a much nastier accusation as it is possible they would deem it to be gross misconduct and that could potentially lead to a firing ( but still you have the right of appeal and then taking it to a tribunal)
The other thing that crossed my mind is that something quite serious has happened that you don't know about, and the IT company genuinely say it was you, because they're incompetent.

the_prophet

well.... the meeting was very interesting and with a much more softly softly tact.... they have not mentioned anything at all aboout deleting history and are concentrating on the email access and ebay access. At the meeting though I was able to state that on one date given I was not at the terminal but my manager (who was there taking notes) was in the office and I hoped that all four staff who were in the office that day would have been investigated. This caused a bit of a fluster I think becasue this has not happened and I think that two of the staff have since left without being interviewed about it. As far as the ebay access goes because I was given permission, I was given no specific guidelines at was constituted appropriate access, my work was not effected in any way.... so I think it it did get to a tribunal its possible that things would go in my favour... they wre not able to tell me whether a 'hit' constituted a visit or a page..... I also asked quite a lot of questions thanks to this thread so there is lots of information that has to be gained...... Looks like I just have to sit and wait again until the next lot of information comes through cheers cheers cheers