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Squashed cramped homes-how do people manage sharing cramped conditions?
Comments
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Running_Horse wrote: »Has there ever been a time when poor people could easily buy property in London? That's why they built all those council estates.
Most people who move to London after leaving home realise this, and head for the Home Counties where a house can be bought for less than £100,000 an hour from London:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E61277&sortByPriceDescending=false&minPrice=80000&maxPrice=100000&minBedrooms=2&maxBedrooms=3&displayPropertyType=houses&oldDisplayPropertyType=houses
Chatham is horrible! Most people will do anything to get OUT of the place - as your link proves!0 -
What is it with people believing the myth that there are no jobs up here? I've managed my entire career without needing to troop into London for work, in fact, I've been to London half a dozen times in my life. Yes, it's hard work having to commute an hour to work in Oxford, but there are other options, like working from home perhaps. As the prices rise in London, this is going to have to be the way. As you say, no one can afford it. However, my home town of Milton Keynes is just 10 miles down the road and there are plenty of jobs there, likewise, Oxford, Birmingham and all points along either the M1 or M40, neither of which is far. It's a complete myth that only those living in London are gainfully employed and the rest of us are living off the state. I've never had a problem getting a job, it's all a matter of perspective and what you're willing to do for it. I remember my father being gone for days on end as a travelling salesman, it was necessary to keep us clothed and fed. Most of my friends Dads were the same and believe me, times were far tougher back in the 80s.
I'd like a job on my doorstep but it has never been the case for the majority if the country. In the case of house prices, I have a house that most Londoners could only dream of but the trade off is I have to work a little harder for it in terms of time and effort. I don't see myself as being deprived because I don't live in a bustling city, in fact, I loath London as a general rule...too many people in too much of a hurry...now that's stress! I had to go to Kensington last week for a meeting and by the time I'd made it from Marylebone to Kensignton, done a days work and got back again, I was exhausted, dirty, hungry and about ready to go postal on the next person who shoved me in the ribs. I still have a cough from the traffic fumes and I couldn't stop sneezing for 24 hours afterwards. How on earth anyone lives there I don't know. Give me the rolling green fields any day.
Commuting is expensive (have you seen the PRICE of train travel?:eek:) and it's tiring too - not to mention all that time you spend travelling door to door - it makes your working day so much longer. I know of people who commute and they never get to see their kids except for at weekends, by which time they're usually knackered and just want to sleep in! And who wants a father they never see - or one who is travelling all week and only home at weekends?:(
Also, the wages up north are much lower than down south, and even though property is cheap up north, day to day living costs are the same : utility bills, food etc
Milton Keynes is a very depressing place, and not many people would want to wotk there let alone live there.:(
Someone else on this thread said people can work from home up north, but that depends on what sort of work you do! You can't do hands-on from home!
Surprised you remember the 80s as being 'tough' - they weren't tough in London. Much of the 80s was the decade of 'LOADSAMONEY'.
But you admit you'd like a job on your doorstep, and that's what most Londoners have. I find the people who claim to loath London are really filled with sour grapes.:p All that nonsense about traffic fumes etc - maybe on a very hot summer's day (you don't get those much up north, admittedly) maybe on those days the VERY centre of London can get busy with traffic, but usually you hardly notice any traffic fumes! And if it was as bad as you'd like to make out, you wouldn't have billionaires living in central London or Royalty living in Kensington Palace would you?:money:
Furthermore, London has MORE parks and green open spaces than any other city in the UK. That's actually part of its appeal - all the sprawling parks, river, and lakes. London is incredibly green with thousands of tree-lined avenues - something sorely lacking in places such as Leeds, Hull, Liverpool etc....where it's all grey, miserable and barren.
You're also forgetting all the wonderful shops, theatres, museaums there are in London. Why do you think people travel halfway across the world to visit it?0 -
breadlinebetty wrote: »Commuting is expensive (have you seen the PRICE of train travel?:eek:) and it's tiring too - not to mention all that time you spend travelling door to door - it makes your working day so much longer.
OK, Id agree that trains are expensive, but only if you need to catch the train. My point is, I dont catch the train because I dont go to London. It's perfectly normal to have a good job outside of the M25...honest.
Perhaps they want someone who can and does get up at the crack of dawn every morning because it is their duty to provide. As it is, I'm usually up at 6am anyway, so why not just go to work as well.breadlinebetty wrote: »I know of people who commute and they never get to see their kids except for at weekends, by which time they're usually knackered and just want to sleep in! And who wants a father they never see - or one who is travelling all week and only home at weekends?:(breadlinebetty wrote: »Also, the wages up north are much lower than down south,
No, they're really not. I earn more than twice the national average and I dont set foot in London unless I absolutely have to.
Yes...but it's tough all over for people whether in London or not. That's why we're all here, we're mostly paying off debts and learning how to do without spending a single penny more than we absolutely have to. Not because it's fun, but because we've grown up in a materialistic society who's sole purpose is to part us from our money any which a-way they can.breadlinebetty wrote: »and even though property is cheap up north, day to day living costs are the same : utility bills, food etcbreadlinebetty wrote: »Milton Keynes is a very depressing place, and not many people would want to wotk there let alone live there.:(
Really? I hadnt noticed, but then the sky line is usually obscured by trees and park land - 20 million trees to be precise. There are lakes (dozens of them), industrial estates scattered among the housing estates so no-one has to walk more than a mile or so to work (or that was the theory), a bus service that is still reasonable and miles of safe paths to walk on. There's art and culture in the theatre district, a shopping centre that people travel miles to visit and more clubs, societies, groups, activities than you can shake a stick at. There are some big names like Mercedes, Alps, Volkswagen, Pharmacia, Merchants, Argos, Santander, Network Southeast. There are thousands of tiny companies each employing under 20 people and if you cant find a job, you're not trying very hard. The Railway station is right in the middle of the city and it offers direct lines to Euston.breadlinebetty wrote: »Someone else on this thread said people can work from home up north, but that depends on what sort of work you do! You can't do hands-on from home!
True, but that would apply in London too.breadlinebetty wrote: »Surprised you remember the 80s as being 'tough' - they weren't tough in London. Much of the 80s was the decade of 'LOADSAMONEY'.
No, it was the decade of jam sandwiches morning noon and night because my father was made redundant three times in a year. It was the decade of watching a woman stand crying on the kerb with her three children under five as some nameless bailiff boarded up her house. It was the decade of shops shutting, grey winters, no work and less money.breadlinebetty wrote: »But you admit you'd like a job on your doorstep, and that's what most Londoners have. I find the people who claim to loath London are really filled with sour grapes.:p
No. I like the architecture, I like the history, but I despise London as a place to live and work. Nothing could induce me to go there and let's be clear, I've been offered some incredible amounts of money to do just that. I simply wont.breadlinebetty wrote: »All that nonsense about traffic fumes etc - maybe on a very hot summer's day (you don't get those much up north, admittedly) maybe on those days the VERY centre of London can get busy with traffic, but usually you hardly notice any traffic fumes! And if it was as bad as you'd like to make out, you wouldn't have billionaires living in central London or Royalty living in Kensington Palace would you?:money:
They dont live on the street, they live in highrises. They commute to Switzerland for winter skiiing. I'm talking about ordinary people. The traffic fumes are not nonsese, it's incredibly apparent to someone who doesnt live and work there routinely. When I get to street level from the tube, it's choking...all day, every day.breadlinebetty wrote: »Furthermore, London has MORE parks and green open spaces than any other city in the UK.
Care to site your sources because good old Wikipedia tells me that the population density in London is 4978/Km2 while MK is 2199/Km2.
I'm sorry, but if you're counting the likes of Regents park as a sprawling park, you are sadly mis-informed. It's tiny - like a postage stamp. My local park growing up was 5 MILES long, yup, you read that right. And that was just one of many parks in MK. Not to mention the fact that the city itself is surrounded by open farm land stretching for another 20 or more until the next serious sized connurbation.breadlinebetty wrote: »That's actually part of its appeal - all the sprawling parks, river, and lakes.breadlinebetty wrote: »London is incredibly green with thousands of tree-lined avenues - something sorely lacking in places such as Leeds, Hull, Liverpool etc....where it's all grey, miserable and barren.
I saw some sad wilted excuses for trees in London, that's true.breadlinebetty wrote: »You're also forgetting all the wonderful shops, theatres, museaums there are in London. Why do you think people travel halfway across the world to visit it?
Because they dont know about other places. Most tourists are American, they think that they can 'do' Scotland in an afternoon. Yes, I've occassionally spent time in the NH or the Science Museum, but Oxford has the Ashmolean, the Pitt Rivers and a thousand years of achitectural history. MK doesnt have that many museums, true, but it's not far from anywhere that does.Debt Free! Long road, but we did it
Meet my best friend : YNAB (you need a budget)
My other best friend is a filofax.
Do or do not, there is no try....Yoda.
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OK, Id agree that trains are expensive, but only if you need to catch the train. My point is, I dont catch the train because I dont go to London. It's perfectly normal to have a good job outside of the M25...honest.
Perhaps they want someone who can and does get up at the crack of dawn every morning because it is their duty to provide. As it is, I'm usually up at 6am anyway, so why not just go to work as well.
No, they're really not. I earn more than twice the national average and I dont set foot in London unless I absolutely have to.
Yes...but it's tough all over for people whether in London or not. That's why we're all here, we're mostly paying off debts and learning how to do without spending a single penny more than we absolutely have to. Not because it's fun, but because we've grown up in a materialistic society who's sole purpose is to part us from our money any which a-way they can.
Really? I hadnt noticed, but then the sky line is usually obscured by trees and park land - 20 million trees to be precise. There are lakes (dozens of them), industrial estates scattered among the housing estates so no-one has to walk more than a mile or so to work (or that was the theory), a bus service that is still reasonable and miles of safe paths to walk on. There's art and culture in the theatre district, a shopping centre that people travel miles to visit and more clubs, societies, groups, activities than you can shake a stick at. There are some big names like Mercedes, Alps, Volkswagen, Pharmacia, Merchants, Argos, Santander, Network Southeast. There are thousands of tiny companies each employing under 20 people and if you cant find a job, you're not trying very hard. The Railway station is right in the middle of the city and it offers direct lines to Euston.
True, but that would apply in London too.
No, it was the decade of jam sandwiches morning noon and night because my father was made redundant three times in a year. It was the decade of watching a woman stand crying on the kerb with her three children under five as some nameless bailiff boarded up her house. It was the decade of shops shutting, grey winters, no work and less money.
No. I like the architecture, I like the history, but I despise London as a place to live and work. Nothing could induce me to go there and let's be clear, I've been offered some incredible amounts of money to do just that. I simply wont.
They dont live on the street, they live in highrises. They commute to Switzerland for winter skiiing. I'm talking about ordinary people. The traffic fumes are not nonsese, it's incredibly apparent to someone who doesnt live and work there routinely.
Care to site your sources because good old Wikipedia tells me that the population density in London is 4978/Km2 while MK is 2199/Km2.
I'm sorry, but if you're counting the likes of Regents park as a sprawling park, you are sadly mis-informed. It's tiny - like a postage stamp. My local park growing up was 5 MILES long, yup, you read that right. And that was just one of many parks in MK. Not to mention the fact that the city itself is surrounded by open farm land stretching for another 20 or more until the next serious sized connurbation.
I saw some sad wilted excuses for trees in London, that's true.
Because they dont know about other places. Most tourists are American, they think that they can 'do' Scotland in an afternoon. Yes, I've occassionally spent time in the NH or the Science Museum, but Oxford has the Ashmolean, the Pitt Rivers and a thousand years of achitectural history. MK doesnt have that many museums, true, but it's not far from anywhere that does.
You really do change your tune. In a previous post you said it was OK to catch a train, and now you're saying that, yes, trains ARE expensive - but only if you need to catch one!! Well, I'll have you know that people who HAVE to catch a train to get to work do indeed HAVE to get one! Twice a day! Five days a week!:(
And if you earn twice the national average why are you finding it so hard to save and get out of your overdarft?
Say what you like about Milton Keynes, but most people shudder at the mere mention of the place. Handy, though, that they have a fast train leaving to Euston!
Your memory of the 1980s is totally different to mine. But then you were living in Milton Keynes at the time........
Your nonsense about "When I get to street level from the tube, it's choking...all day, every day.
What rubbish you talk! Do you seriously expect people to believe that Londoners are all walking about choking!?:rotfl: We don't have SMOGS anymore, you know! Besides, you're not really in a position to say what the air quality is like in London - you've only visited the capital 6 times in your life! Hardly the little expert are you!
And for you to say rich Londoners only live in highrises! lol That's the funniest thing I've read this year! Take a peruse on Rightmove of Sloane Street, for example, or Cheyne Walk, Harley Street, Eton Square (oh I could go on and on - and on and on - and on and on...) they all live on GROUND LEVEL! Of course there are some penthouses, but there's THOUSANDS of ground level houses too!:rotfl:
OH, and they don't all leave to go skiing for the whole winter - they usually go for a week, once or twice a season!
Finally, to say all the trees in London are wilting......you've made yourself look like a muppet! A muppet from Milton Keynes too!:idea:
LONDON is one of THE most greenest cities in the WHOLE world. Just SOME of the beautiful parks we have are:
Richmond Park (that's about 9 miles - with Deer and the river too!:p)
Hyde Park
Regent's Park (don't forget the beautiful canal at Little Venice!)
Green Park
St. James's Park
Greenwich Park
Battersea Park
Dulwich Park
Victoria Park
Lee Valley Park
Bushy Park
not forgetting...........
Kensington Gardens
Kew Gardens
plus all our beautiful Commons..
Clapham Common
Putney Heath
Hampstead Heath
Wimbledon Common
Wandsworth Common
Streatham Common
Tooting Bec Common
Kenley Common
I'm sure I've missed a few!:j And I'm sure they've all got wilting trees - according to you!:D Here's a little link to tell you how green London is - enjoy!
http://www.visitlondon.com/attractions/outdoors/large-parks0 -
Get rid of all the crap you don't need. My poky 2-bed terrace feels bigger than my mother in law's 3-bed detached because she has so much STUFF. The coffee table is piled high with magazines, the windowsills are chock full of ornaments, you can barely move in the downstairs cloakroom for all the coats and jackets and trainers and walking boots crammed in there.breadlinebetty wrote: »So my main question is, besides building extensions - how you make more space in your home?0 -
Stop buying stuff.breadlinebetty wrote: »So my main question is, besides building extensions - how you make more space in your home?
When I was a kid my sister and I had all our toys stored in one shared drawer. The bedroom just had two beds, one wardrobe and I had a small bedside cabinet. The drawer was in a cupboard in one house we lived in, then it was on the floor beside the wardrobe.
One drawer, that's your lot.0 -
Seriously people have way too much stuff! I used to live in a tiny one bed flat (390sqft tiny) with my OH for years so I had to be creative with storage and what to keep and not to keep. Or buy or not to buy. My biggest problem were the books.
It does annoy me when people need a 3 bed house just cos they popped a sprog, the said baby needs millions of things too, then when it grows up it's the toys, computers and other useless !!!!. So you fill up one house and you "need" to buy a bigger one so you can fill it up with more !!!!.
And Fyrewyrm, Milton Keynes is a desirable place to live? Really???0 -
I must be lucky i've got a big 3 bed house to myself, trouble with all this space is you hoard more.Liverpool is one of the wonders of Britain,
What it may grow to in time, I know not what.
Daniel Defoe: 1725.
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A lot of my friends with babies got showered with huge toys (usually from grandparents who especially go overboard at their first Christmas) that they really don't have space for, but feel they can't get rid of without looking obviously ungrateful. The babies invariably ignore them for the much more exciting crumpled wrapping paper.
I think open plan kitchen/lounges are deceptive; they look modern, spacious and airy, but in fact have much less storage, surfaces and shelf space.
PS Breadline Betty- it is pointless arguing with people who have made up their mind to hate London. It's one less moaner living here amongst us.They are an EYESORES!!!!0 -
Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »A lot of my friends with babies got showered with huge toys (usually from grandparents who especially go overboard at their first Christmas) that they really don't have space for, but feel they can't get rid of without looking obviously ungrateful. The babies invariably ignore them for the much more exciting crumpled wrapping paper.
I think open plan kitchen/lounges are deceptive; they look modern, spacious and airy, but in fact have much less storage, surfaces and shelf space.
PS Breadline Betty- it is pointless arguing with people who have made up their mind to hate London. It's one less moaner living here amongst us.
Agree with everything you said!
Funny that whatsisname hasn't come back to complain about all the wilting trees in London!
Guessed he wouldn't!0
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