I'm very confused about my friend's entitlement

Caz3121

There does seem to be an extra payment for those working but not sure if it is classed as working tax credits or additional child tax credits
you can compare the tables here
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/people-advise-others/entitlement-tables/no-work-child.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/people-advise-others/entitlement-tables/work-and-child/work-no-childcosts.htm

2 kids, £20k income last year, £3,960 if not working and £4,755 if working

dojoman

Badger_Lady wrote: »

We've been discussing this all day and I can't work it out.

My friend is expecting her second child. She doesn't work and didn't prior to breeding, but her husband works full-time and earns let's say £18,000.

So according to this pdf they are entitled to claim child and working tax credits, to the sum total of £6,805.

However when they phone HMRC they're told that no-one earning more than £17,729 is entitled to working tax credits, and that they would only continue to get the child tax credits of £5,560. Also, on using the calculator on the HMRC website, someone with an income of £18,000 is calculated to not be entitled to working tax credits.

So is that leaflet in the link out of date? When did they change it? What's happening? Eh?

Thanks

Lovely terminology, glad you are not a friend of mine;)

tyllwyd

Badger_Lady wrote: »

...
On page 9 it says "Child tax credit and working tax credit". A combined figure. For people who are working AND have one or more children. And it appears to say quite clearly that you can claim with an income of £40,000:

We used to make a child tax credit/working tax credit claim, and on the form we got back it would set out our working tax elements, and then say 'reduction due to your income' which would set the whole thing back to zero, just leaving the child tax credit element, which was the 545 in your table. I remember it doing a similar thing to the childcare element.

So that's probably why the two figures are combined in the table - it assumes you make a claim for both, but in fact the working tax element will be zero.

JimmyTheWig

Badger_Lady wrote: »

On page 9 it says "Child tax credit and working tax credit". A combined figure. For people who are working AND have one or more children. And it appears to say quite clearly that you can claim with an income of £40,000

Yes, it's a combined figure. At those levels it is a combination of Child tax credit (£545) plus Working tax credit (£0).


OP, I think that some on this thread have a problem with you using the word "breeding". Many use that as an offensive word for people who "do nothing but have children" because they see it as an easy option. I'm guessing those people have never looked after children if they see it as easy option!
But I think it might help to confirm that you didn't use the word to be nasty.

Vejovis

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

That's what the word means!

true, but it's generally used to describe the process in animals, and generally used in a spiteful way to describe the process in humans. so whether the terminology is correct, the context in which it is used is also important.

Oldernotwiser

Vejovis wrote: »

true, but it's generally used to describe the process in animals, and generally used in a spiteful way to describe the process in humans. so whether the terminology is correct, the context in which it is used is also important.

It obviously depends - my friends would use it for people in a jokey way, which I assume is the case here.

Vejovis

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

It obviously depends - my friends would use it for people in a jokey way, which I assume is the case here.

it doesn't come across as jokey imo, especially when it's coupled with 'she doesn't work', it comes across as nasty and jealous imo.

Badger_Lady

Thanks all. Though I have to admit I'm still not clear - the combined rate for my friend's household (income £18,000) is higher than the child tax rate alone. So surely they can claim that higher rate?

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

OP, I think that some on this thread have a problem with you using the word "breeding". Many use that as an offensive word for people who "do nothing but have children" because they see it as an easy option. I'm guessing those people have never looked after children if they see it as easy option!
But I think it might help to confirm that you didn't use the word to be nasty.

I wasn't aware of an negative associations with the word 'breeding' - I apologise to anyone who took offence as a result of my ignorance in this respect.

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

It obviously depends - my friends would use it for people in a jokey way, which I assume is the case here.

^ exactly that

Vejovis wrote: »

it doesn't come across as jokey imo, especially when it's coupled with 'she doesn't work', it comes across as nasty and jealous imo.

She didn't work due to various disabilities. I only mentioned that she hadn't worked in case it was relevant - i.e. she has no maternity pay and no NI contributions.

JimmyTheWig

Badger_Lady wrote: »

Thanks all. Though I have to admit I'm still not clear - the combined rate for my friend's household (income £18,000) is higher than the child tax rate alone. So surely they can claim that higher rate?

Yes, they'll get child tax credits.

Badger_Lady

sleepless_saver wrote: »

The pdf you've been looking at was published in April 2011 so will be out of date for 2012-2013.
Have a look at these entitlement tables and calculator. I think these have recently been updated and will give a better idea.

Thanks ... this actually matches my table above. The dates on it are April 2011-April 2012, so the current tax year.

So let's simplify things here because we all seem to be talking cross-purposes. The HMRC has three different rate tables. One for WTC, one for CTC and one for combined WTC and CTC. Using my friend's circumstances (two children, one income of £18,000), these are the figures:

WTC alone: £0
CTC alone: £5,660
WTC and CTC Combined: £6,805

So my friend has been told "you can only claim the CTC of £5,660". But surely she can actually claim the WTC and CTC combined of £6,805. And if not, why not?