Help for my friend who's having a tough time - Marriage related

daska

Possibly one of the most reassuring things you could tell her is that the courts don't assign financial settlements based on blame - so it doesn't matter how big his dossier is. And she could probably use the existence of the 'dossier' as grounds as evidence of unreasonable behaviour.

meritaten

Yes - he is 'Gaslighting' her - and also using 'christian' methods of controlling. I would guess that the 'christian' church he belongs to is quite 'old fashioned' and believes the wife should 'submit' to the husband.
you say your friend is a strong person - but even the strongest people can cave in if enough people tell them they are wrong. show her how this man is controlling her - and help her with a 'getaway' plan hun. because she needs to get away - even if its only with her shirt on her back! unless she wants to become a 'stepford wife'?

nearlyrich

Co-incidentally I went to see the play "Gaslight" at our local theatre this week and I was emotionally affected as I saw the leading lady being subjected to tactics my ex used on me many years ago, I was a strong person my ex made me weak and fearful, once I saw the light I got out and regained my strength. A good relationship is mutually supportive.

suki1001

meritaten wrote: »

Yes - he is 'Gaslighting' her - and also using 'christian' methods of controlling. I would guess that the 'christian' church he belongs to is quite 'old fashioned' and believes the wife should 'submit' to the husband.
you say your friend is a strong person - but even the strongest people can cave in if enough people tell them they are wrong. show her how this man is controlling her - and help her with a 'getaway' plan hun. because she needs to get away - even if its only with her shirt on her back! unless she wants to become a 'stepford wife'?

Actually they go to more modern Christian churches, I find they are the ones that tend to be more firery with the bible messages. Think American style. I think partly because they are full of younger men who use their knowledge of the bible as some sort of badge of merit, they kind of miss the point. I have another friend whose son does this, the other son is gay, so his dad gets a lot of lectures about how the gay brother is sinning. I don't know whether the church he goes to believes in this "submiting to the husband", but i think church or not he'll just do this anyway, so in some ways it's irrelevant, he's just desperately grabbing control wherever he can possibly find it.

With regards to a leaving plan, I think she'll leave if she wants to, the next few weeks will either make him see what he's doing (counselling, and I don't want to go into this too much - too many specifics and all that) or I believe will cause them to split. She is incredibly level headed, but yes I think there are times when she dispairs.

heretolearn_2

it's true that there are churches that still believe the submit bit and preach that to their members, and will advise couples on that basis. However, that is only one side of the story - and I don't believe any church ignores the other side. The husbands in these churches also have quite a lot put on them as well - it is not the case that 'man says jump, woman asks how high' at all, at least not at any of the churches I know (and some of those are quite extreme in their views). the husband's side of this that they are instucted to love their wives as Christ loved the church and sacrificed himself for it. In other words, they should love her totally, unconditionally and forgivingly, to the extent of being willing to die for her...and that is from the exact same part of the bible that instructs wives to submit to their husbands. It's the joint rules for marriage, if you like.

just a bit of ammo for her if she ever feels she really needs to argue with him, but to be honest it sounds not like a mixed-up version of a Christian biblical marriage, just a plain old abusive one where he is using misrepresentations of the bible for excuses.

By the way I don't believe any of this myself, but I know quite a few people who do, and their marriages are NOT abusive in any way and the husbands don't spend all day ordering the wives around or telling them off or preparing 'evidence'. It's just their approach to sorting out who is responsible for what.

There's also this
Colossians 3:19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

benb76

Just to reassure you and your friend, the fact that it is only his name on the mortgage makes no difference in the financial settlement. If he really believes that this is the case then you can probably use his lack of intelligence with regard to UK law to your advantage and get a step ahead of him. It wouldn't surprise me if he believed that blame was still taken into account where divorce settlements are concerned. Good luck.

suki1001

heretolearn wrote: »

it's true that there are churches that still believe the submit bit and preach that to their members, and will advise couples on that basis. However, that is only one side of the story - and I don't believe any church ignores the other side. The husbands in these churches also have quite a lot put on them as well - it is not the case that 'man says jump, woman asks how high' at all, at least not at any of the churches I know (and some of those are quite extreme in their views). the husband's side of this that they are instucted to love their wives as Christ loved the church and sacrificed himself for it. In other words, they should love her totally, unconditionally and forgivingly, to the extent of being willing to die for her...and that is from the exact same part of the bible that instructs wives to submit to their husbands. It's the joint rules for marriage, if you like.

just a bit of ammo for her if she ever feels she really needs to argue with him, but to be honest it sounds not like a mixed-up version of a Christian biblical marriage, just a plain old abusive one where he is using misrepresentations of the bible for excuses.

By the way I don't believe any of this myself, but I know quite a few people who do, and their marriages are NOT abusive in any way and the husbands don't spend all day ordering the wives around or telling them off or preparing 'evidence'. It's just their approach to sorting out who is responsible for what.

There's also this
Colossians 3:19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

Yes, I think you're absolutely right, that is what I see with a lot of Christian couples too. Bizarely though a lot of them seem to be one extreme or the other. The husband is either completely devoted and lovely, or they are sleeping around (not the relationship in question btw) and just plain not nice. In this case, he is just using whatever ammo he can get his hands on.

clearingout

daska wrote: »

Possibly one of the most reassuring things you could tell her is that the courts don't assign financial settlements based on blame - so it doesn't matter how big his dossier is. And she could probably use the existence of the 'dossier' as grounds as evidence of unreasonable behaviour.

I agree daska, not understanding how divorce works can be one of the biggest hurdles to get over in dealing with a partner hell bent on making the other person's life very difficult. Suki - you may find https://www.wikivorce.com a very useful source of information from a 'how divorce works' point of view. Your friend will also find it useful from an emotional point of view - if you spend a couple of hours reading blogs there, you soon come to realise that you're one of many who is experiencing exactly the same thing at the same time in exactly the same order. It's like there's a script these men (sometimes women) read from!

suki1001

benb76 wrote: »

Just to reassure you and your friend, the fact that it is only his name on the mortgage makes no difference in the financial settlement. If he really believes that this is the case then you can probably use his lack of intelligence with regard to UK law to your advantage and get a step ahead of him. It wouldn't surprise me if he believed that blame was still taken into account where divorce settlements are concerned. Good luck.

Thank you, I think the fact he seems to be compliling his dossier shows this. Equally, I think he's grasping at any attemp at control, so to me it's coming across as panic and desperation anything to prove he's in the right and screw whether he actually ends up "cutting his nose off to spite his face".
I think another fear of hers is that people in the past (particularly church wise), have believed him over her, hence they've never got anywhere when they've tried to get help. Coupled with the fact he truely believe's she is at fault, has led them not to solve any issues in the past.

duchy

Bear in mind that if they are heavilly involved socially with the church-ridiculous as it sounds there IS still a bias aginst women from failed marriages and she may be also hearing how she should "try harder" "understand him better" from her friends within the church who are very well meaning and trying in their own way to help.