Greece...

michaels

worldtraveller wrote: »

"If Europe leaves us in the crisis, we will flood it with migrants, and it will be even worse for Berlin if in that wave of millions of economic migrants there will be some jihadists of the Islamic State too.”
Panos Kammenos, Greek defence minister - March, 2015

"....there will be tens of millions of immigrants and thousands of jihadists”.
Nikos Kotzias, Greek foreign minister - March, 2015

I would have said that such threats were certainly bargaining ploys, especially when, at the time, EU officials were so concerned by the Greek threats that the European Commission sought “assurances… that no measures to open up detention centres are being taken”.

If you only had the cash for either medicines for your citizens or to keep foreign nationals in detention centres preventing them from travelling elsewhere in the eu, which would you do?

antrobus

Generali wrote: »

....Feel free to pick apart the figures as they came from a bit of a random Google rather than a systematic attempt to understand the actual debt profile.

I believe the answer is to be found in this document;

Who Hurts Most If Greece Defaults
http://www.bloombergbriefs.com/content/uploads/sites/2/2015/01/MS_Greece_WhoHurts.pdf

antrobus

worldtraveller wrote: »

"If Europe leaves us in the crisis, we will flood it with migrants, and it will be even worse for Berlin if in that wave of millions of economic migrants there will be some jihadists of the Islamic State too.”
Panos Kammenos, Greek defence minister - March, 2015

"....there will be tens of millions of immigrants and thousands of jihadists”.
Nikos Kotzias, Greek foreign minister - March, 2015

I would have said that such threats were certainly bargaining ploys, especially when, at the time, EU officials were so concerned by the Greek threats that the European Commission sought “assurances… that no measures to open up detention centres are being taken”.

They are "bargaining ploys" in the same sense as threatening to set fire to your own house, in the hope that the flames also reach your neighbour's property, might be said to be a bargaining ploy in some boundary dispute.:)

Thrugelmir

antrobus wrote: »

They are "bargaining ploys" in the same sense as threatening to set fire to your own house, in the hope that the flames also reach your neighbour's property, might be said to be a bargaining ploy in some boundary dispute.:)

ISIS controls territory bordering Turkey. There's unrest in both Bosnia and Macedonia. Situation in Ukraine is still unresolved. The EU needs a stable Greek Government in power.

Froggitt

ChiefGrasscutter wrote: »

The Greeks need to be more 'creative' and to get tough
Tell the EU that unless they get the cash they will open their border to the east and let the immigrants (and of course ISIS) flood in.
That should get the EU's attention.

And they will get kicked out of/suspended from Schengen and/or EU.

antrobus

Thrugelmir wrote: »

ISIS controls territory bordering Turkey. There's unrest in both Bosnia and Macedonia. Situation in Ukraine is still unresolved. The EU needs a stable Greek Government in power.

I believe that you are exagerating the current geo-political significance of Greece. And I'm sure that EU would prefer a stable Greek Government in power, but they don't really have one at the moment, and the world has not ended.

antrobus

Froggitt wrote: »

And they will get kicked out of/suspended from Schengen and/or EU.

It's possible that will happen.

It's also possible that is exactly what Syriza want to happen. They are, after all, supposed to the Alliance of the Radical Left, and are composed of sundry Trotskyists, Maoists, and the like. As believers in revolutionary socialism perhaps they want to manufacture the crisis that will signify the fall of capitalism in Greece.

Froggitt

I'm not sure your ordinary Greek wants to live as a Russian satellite pseudo-communist country. That's not what they signed up for.....they believed that Tsipras could end austerity while staying in the Euro.

Generali

Froggitt wrote: »

I'm not sure your ordinary Greek wants to live as a Russian satellite pseudo-communist country. That's not what they signed up for.....they believed that Tsipras could end austerity while staying in the Euro.

Tsipras had the cojones to say what nobody else in Europe will: Greece is insolvent and must default. The only choice is about how they default. Do they repudiate the debt entirely or force through another haircut.

If they Grexit they will face the same fate as Iceland. It will be horrible to be in Greece for a couple of years as imports (about half of food, most medicines, nappies, oil) will be hard to buy for a while. Once things settle down, if nobody does anything stupid which isn't a given, the economy should bounce back quickly.

If you can't afford to pay your debts it doesn't really matter what threats your creditors make. You simply can't pay what you don't have. Greek unemployment is over 25% !!!!!!. The British start to whine when theirs goes much over 5%.

Froggitt

Who will lend to Greece in future and at what rates of interest? A default will knacker them for a generation as they are a known defaulter, with a poor credit rating.