Greece...

[Deleted User]

The New Development Bank is ready to give Greece the money to rebuild itself in case the IMF and the ECB pull the plug:
http://sputniknews.com/business/20150606/1023034880.html

Generali

Froggitt wrote: »

Who will lend to Greece in future and at what rates of interest? A default will knacker them for a generation as they are a known defaulter, with a poor credit rating.

Well it took investors about 6 years to lend to Russia after they default in debts in their own currency.

Who needs loans anyway? The short-term 90-180 day debt a Government needs to run between times when VAT & Corporation Tax payments come in can be covered by forcing local banks or pensioners to hold a proportion of reserves in those instruments.

Spain, Portugal and Greece had no debt until the 1980s and functioned perfectly well. They had no debt because nobody would lend to fascist/military states.

antrobus

Froggitt wrote: »

I'm not sure your ordinary Greek wants to live as a Russian satellite pseudo-communist country. That's not what they signed up for.....they believed that Tsipras could end austerity while staying in the Euro.

Well yes, but that's precisely the point about Trotskyist 'transistional demands'. You don't have to actually deliver the demand; they're only made so as to hasten the collapse of capitalism.

antrobus

Generali wrote: »

.... Once things settle down, if nobody does anything stupid which isn't a given, the economy should bounce back quickly.....

Like on the previous five occasions that Greece defaulted?

External devlauation (aka austerity) is always easier for a government to sell to the public, compared to austerity (aka internal devaluation.)

Generali wrote: »

..Spain, Portugal and Greece had no debt until the 1980s and functioned perfectly well. They had no debt because nobody would lend to fascist/military states.

Yes......

How is the Greek Army these days?:)

Generali

antrobus wrote: »

Like on the previous five occasions that Greece defaulted?

I read a piece a couple of years back which claimed Greece had spent about 3 years in default for each year she had been paying her debts.

antrobus wrote: »

External devlauation (aka austerity) is always easier for a government to sell to the public, compared to austerity (aka internal devaluation.)

It's also a better option IMHO. Better to shed the debt which you can't repay anyway, get your economy onto a proper footing (free market capitalism for the most part) and suck up the pain for a couple of years.

Remember, if you default nobody ploughs salt into the fields, the productive potential of your economy remains the same. It just takes a while for the economy to adjust to different sources of debt.

antrobus wrote: »

Yes......

How is the Greek Army these days?:)

Still being paid and hopefully being paid at the top of the queue.

antrobus

Generali wrote: »

I read a piece a couple of years back which claimed Greece had spent about 3 years in default for each year she had been paying her debts.....

I think I must have read the same article. As in, Greece has spent 50 years out of the last 200 in default.

Generali wrote: »

...It's also a better option IMHO. Better to shed the debt which you can't repay anyway, get your economy onto a proper footing (free market capitalism for the most part) and suck up the pain for a couple of years.

Remember, if you default nobody ploughs salt into the fields, the productive potential of your economy remains the same. It just takes a while for the economy to adjust to different sources of debt....

I believe that there is a debate amongst the kind of people that care about this sort of thing (IMF economists etc) as to whether 'internal devaluation' works better than the external kind. Or indeed works at all. But neither is painless, from the point of view of the ordinary Greek.

Generali wrote: »

..Still being paid and hopefully being paid at the top of the queue.

I was just wondering what their colonels thought about recent devolpments.:)

wymondham

Wouldn't it be great if we could all act like Greece. Have the money to pay off loans but refuse, knowing nothing is likely to be as a consequence...

CLAPTON

wymondham wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if we could all act like Greece. Have the money to pay off loans but refuse, knowing nothing is likely to be as a consequence...

that's what we do all the time for the poorer regions of our own country : the richer parts like London and Scotland subsidises the poorer parts like Yorkshire and the SW. Of course, we don't actually lend them anything; we simply give it in the first place.

The Eurozone is dysfunctional as it has the same monetary policies for all the countries of the Eurozone but doesn't accept the inevitable consequences.

mystic_trev

Featuring Sid James as Alexis Tsipras



and Hattie Jacques as Angela Merkel


and co starring Kenneth Williams as Yanis Varoufakis



The Telegraph - This could Carry on and on and on and……..

The Guardian - A great sequel to Carry on don't lose your Marbles

The Mail - Their best since Carry on up the Acropolis,

globalds

The odd thing is ..when this does all go to the next level ..

People will look back and say this ..the present discrete paying off of Greece's debt by Germany as probably the most efficient way of managing the problem ..Greece is after all behaving itself better than ever before .

I propose this carry on