Greece...

jjlandlord

CLAPTON wrote: »

simply shows the EU experiment has failed.

it no longer serves the people of the EU

there is no reasonable doubt that the southern european countries would have been better off without the EU

It is dishonest to reduce the EU to the euro. It is also dishonest to claim that either the euro or the EU have failed.

These are very political issues and all commenters, even those commenting as 'experts', have political views.

As such, it would perhaps be more useful to tell us what your expectation was and how it was not met.

CLAPTON

jjlandlord wrote: »

It is dishonest to reduce the EU to the euro. It is also dishonest to claim that either the euro or the EU have failed.

These are very political issues and all commenters, even those commenting as 'experts', have political views.

As such, it would perhaps be more useful to tell us what your expectation was and how it was not met.

It is difficult to juxtapose the word 'honesty' and 'EU' together but absurd to suggest I can't honestly believe the Euro experiment has failed.
I respect you may honestly disagree and may honestly believe the Euro has been an outstanding success and maybe one you wish we had joined.


However, my expectations have broadly been met.

vivatifosi

Ken Clarke has stated that Grexit is inevitable:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11414196/Greek-Euro-exit-is-inevitable-former-UK-Chancellor-Ken-Clarke-warns.html

The Conservative MP branded the new government in Athens “latter day Trotskyites”, and said there was no way their demands could be met.

“I can’t see how you can sensibly avoid the Greeks defaulting and the Greeks having to leave the eurozone.

“It’s not anything to do with just the Germans, I can’t see why any other states should take a huge multi-billion pound hit again for the Greeks so they can hire more civil servants, raise their minimum wage (and) scrap all their labour market laws.”

He added: “I hope a very great deal of work is going on to minimise the impact on financial markets, on the United Kingdom - because it affects us just as much anybody else in the western world.”



He made the comments on Sunday Politics.

Thrugelmir

vivatifosi wrote: »

Ken Clarke has stated that Grexit is inevitable:

Unless the other EU member states are willing to compromise.

fordcapri2000

The_White_Horse wrote: »

why should private investors write off their debt. Let the IMF and the EUROZONE write off their debt!

In any event, Greece should have to pay back every last penny it borrowed and if her people starve and riot in the process, so be it. They took it, now pay it back.

Typical country run by lefties. Borrow borrow borrow. Don't worry about collecting tax, paying the debt back - just borrow more.

About time these morons learnt a lesson.

And with our debt at £1trn and growing, the lefties are stitching us up nicely here. But never fear, the lefty still wants more benefits, a bigger public sector, higher public sector wages and more generous pensions. and what is more, the fact they don't generate a single penny to pay for it is irrelevant. they are ENTITLED.

Of course you are partially right about Greece, but how long do you punish someone for?
Germany was made to suffer after the WW1, and look what happened, after WW2 the world took more of a tough love approach and never tried to seek revenge.

Greece cannot ever repay it's debts, the future of the young in Greece is close to zero, it is just not human to allow them to continue this way, you can only punish someone for so long, Germany was forgiven for far far worse.

Greece will have to pull out of the EU, should never of been there in the first place, and I would like to see some form of moral hazard returning here in a world that has forgot the meaning. But you now have to forgive Greece and allow them to go bankrupt, that alone will give them enough pain, but at least the young will have hope for the future.

antrobus

fordcapri2000 wrote: »

...Greece will have to pull out of the EU, ....

Leaving the EU will cost Greece some 5bn Euros a year.

GunJack

ok, not specifically Greece, but what would happen if all debt worldwide was written off? If you read around, even briefly, it appears that every country is in debt, but no country seems to be in surplus/be owed that money, so who created all this dosh that everyone seems to owe to everyone else??

CLAPTON

GunJack wrote: »

ok, not specifically Greece, but what would happen if all debt worldwide was written off? If you read around, even briefly, it appears that every country is in debt, but no country seems to be in surplus/be owed that money, so who created all this dosh that everyone seems to owe to everyone else??

clearly total nonsense

your reading around has indeed been very brief.

Generali

GunJack wrote: »

ok, not specifically Greece, but what would happen if all debt worldwide was written off? If you read around, even briefly, it appears that every country is in debt, but no country seems to be in surplus/be owed that money, so who created all this dosh that everyone seems to owe to everyone else??

The debt is mostly owned by individuals (e.g. via pension schemes and annuities) and corporations such as banks and insurance companies.

I think you're conflating countries and Governments. British people, companies and the Government have a positive asset value once you subtract debts from assets. The British Government has a terrible debt but even then probably has a positive net asset value.

antrobus

GunJack wrote: »

ok, not specifically Greece, but what would happen if all debt worldwide was written off? ....

Then the people who had lent the money would have to bear the loss.

GunJack wrote: »

...If you read around, even briefly, it appears that every country is in debt, but no country seems to be in surplus/be owed that money...

If you read around, even briefly, you can establish that there countries that are "in surplus" (Norway, Finland, etc), and pretty obviously countries tend to borrow money from entities that aren't countries.

GunJack wrote: »

..so who created all this dosh that everyone seems to owe to everyone else??

The people who decided to do the deals that resulted in the money being owed.