Greece...

Thrugelmir

Koicarp wrote: »

Greeks had to put up with 24 consecutive 1/4's of contraction, huge unemployment and a 33% fall in GDP over the last few years. There is real poverty there, not the kind of thing I see visiting my patient's homes in UK but the kind where huge numbers of people struggle to scrape a meal together. It's amazing that politically they haven't already lurched much further to the extremes.

I'm not disagreeing with your comments. However without the bailouts what would the position be now? Potentially far worse.

Like the Scottish issue last year in the UK. A club only works while all it's members work collectively to the benefit of all. If a member sees personal gain and benefit to itself by following an independent course of action. Then the club will never work.

Don't forget either that Greece was never a rich country in the first place. With a fudged membership of the Euro. That really is at the root of it's problems.

Generali

Thrugelmir wrote: »

In this scenario all going to become very messy. With only one clear winner the Greeks themselves.

Presumably for a Greek person that's the point.

purch

What's a Grecian Urn ?? :eek:

purch

worldtraveller wrote: »

I have a strange sense of deja vu coming on again

Thanks Yogi

N1AK

antrobus wrote: »

Because Greece only has one vote on the ECB governing council, and there is (as far as I'm aware) no veto?

Thanks for the reply. Genuinely misunderstood how ECB decision making worked in practice. You're absolutely right that there's no equivalent of veto power. I'd still be surprised to see them exclude Greece from QE purchases though, if only because they'd have to admit they thought the EU was going to allow Greece to go bankrupt as the justification for doing so.

N1AK

Gangaweed wrote: »

We're about to watch yet another socialist experiment fail (should Syriza win).

People should really learn the socialism always fails.

Take a look at Greece now and explain how exactly how it looks like it's working? Even if you called the massive overspend in pre-crisis years a 'socialist experiment' the post-crisis 'austerity' is definitely not.

People should learn that banding socialist around is a pointless exercise. Norway has plenty of socialist leaning policies and is doing well. Somalia has been a wreck for years without any socialist policies. A slight difference in a countries position on the line between capitalism and socialism alone doesn't define it's success.

antrobus

N1AK wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Genuinely misunderstood how ECB decision making worked in practice. You're absolutely right that there's no equivalent of veto power. I'd still be surprised to see them exclude Greece from QE purchases though, if only because they'd have to admit they thought the EU was going to allow Greece to go bankrupt as the justification for doing so.

The practicalities of any ECB QE pogramme in the light of Greece's local difficulties are one thing.

However my comments were largely made to to demonstrate the sheer asinine stupidity displayed by the leader of Syriza in simultaneously claiming that his party was (a) going to ensure that much of Greece's debt was written off and (b) that the ECB should be obliged to buy that debt.

antrobus

N1AK wrote: »

....People should learn that banding socialist around is a pointless exercise. Norway has plenty of socialist leaning policies and is doing well....

Norway has a shed load of oil. And currently has a Conservative government.

N1AK wrote: »

... Somalia has been a wreck for years without any socialist policies....

Err, actually it did. Somalia was essentially a communist dictatorship between 1969 and 1991, propped up by Soviet money and Cuban troops. When the wheels came of the Soviet bus, the Barre regime collapsed into civil war.

Some might say that was the reason why Somalia became a wreck.

N1AK

antrobus wrote: »

Norway has a shed load of oil. And currently has a Conservative government.

My point exactly, Norway has comparatively socialist policies yet is thriving because those aren't the most important determinant of economic success.

The label conservative hardly means anything. It's like an American dismissing claims the UK is relatively socialist because we have a conservative government, even though our political spectrum is so different to there's.

antrobus wrote: »

Err, actually it did. Somalia was essentially a communist dictatorship between 1969 and 1991...

Some might say that was the reason why Somalia became a wreck.

So when a country goes from socialist to capitalist it is socialisms fault that things don't get better for 20+ years, but when a capitalist country that is virtually falling apart votes in a more socialist government (Greece potentially) if it then fully fails it's socialisms fault. That's a mighty fine pair of blinkers you've got!

N1AK

antrobus wrote: »

However my comments were largely made to to demonstrate the sheer asinine stupidity displayed by the leader of Syriza in simultaneously claiming that his party was (a) going to ensure that much of Greece's debt was written off and (b) that the ECB should be obliged to buy that debt.

Doesn't sound like stupidity to me. A lot of Greeks want less austerity, and want that debt writing off. If the ECB buys the Greek debt he looks like he influenced the decision, if they don't he can blame the current government and/or stoke anti-EU sentiment by claiming the EU is victimising Greece.

Stupidity largely depends on his intended outcome and what he believes, not what he says in public.