Greece...

antrobus

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Only you missed in your explanation that they want a RENEGOTIATED deal. ...

And the substance of the "RENEGOTIATED deal" is that the EFSL lend them €29.1bn so they can meet the repayments on their existing debt. Respite for another couple of years, apparently, but exactly what you have been arguing against.

Landofwood wrote: »

What are you talking about? If you miss a credit card payment are you automatically defaulted? No.

Exactly. You miss a payment, you creditor will allow you a period of grace, just in case you come up with the money sometime after the deadline. In which case, it will record the event as a 'late payment' rather than a default.

Same with the IMF. You have six weeks before the board declare a technical default if you fail to pay on time.

Thrugelmir

wotsthat wrote: »

It would take an epic U-turn for the Greek government to now accept this.

This is an anti austerity far left Government. There's no possibility of a U turn. They'll continue to play their hand.

antrobus

Thrugelmir wrote: »

This is an anti austerity far left Government. There's no possibility of a U turn. They'll continue to play their hand.

It's the Coalition of the Radical Left. Getting capitalism to collapse is a good thing as far as they're concerned.:)

In other news, Telegraph reports that two opinion polls put the 'No' camp ahead.

Grexit gets closer every day.

chucknorris

antrobus wrote: »

It's the Coalition of the Radical Left. Getting capitalism to collapse is a good thing as far as they're concerned.:)

In other news, Telegraph reports that two opinion polls put the 'No' camp ahead.

Grexit gets closer every day.

Grexit betting (by the end of the year) on betfair is currently approx:

2/5 no
5/2 yes

The rules of the betting are:
This market will be settled as 'Yes' if Greece has left the Eurozone and is using an alternative official currency other than the Eurozone's official currency by 31st December 2015. This market will be settled as 'No' if Greece has not left the Eurozone or is still using the Eurozone's currency as at 31st December 2015. Customers are entirely responsible for their bets at all times.

Generali

chucknorris wrote: »

Grexit betting (by the end of the year) on betfair is currently approx:

2/5 no
5/2 yes

The rules of the betting are:
This market will be settled as 'Yes' if Greece has left the Eurozone and is using an alternative official currency other than the Eurozone's official currency by 31st December 2015. This market will be settled as 'No' if Greece has not left the Eurozone or is still using the Eurozone's currency as at 31st December 2015. Customers are entirely responsible for their bets at all times.

That sounds like a very poorly drawn up market. What if they are using a parallel currency?

chucknorris

Generali wrote: »

That sounds like a very poorly drawn up market. What if they are using a parallel currency?

I didn't bother copying the second paragraph of the rules:


If any doubt exists as to the outcome of the market, Betfair may determine, using its reasonable discretion, how to settle the market based on all the information available to it at the relevant time. Betfair reserves the right to wait for further official information before the market is settled.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Only you missed in your explanation that they want a RENEGOTIATED deal.

It's been rejected now but the Greeks wanted €30bn to allow them to meet their debt repayments for the next couple of years. i.e. they want their 'criminal' creditors to lend them even more money. On any other planet you'd be calling them debt junkies building up debt so their boomers can retire early.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I think you'll find I understand perfectly. The EU is doing all it can to get rid of Syrzia.

Well I hope if that's really the intention it succeeds.

Greece are being governed by a bunch of incompetents who are trying to bluff with a pair of twos not realising everyone else can see their hand.

The deal needed is for Greece to accept the reforms and, in return, for the Eurogroup to kick our proverbial can so far into the distance we don't see it for a generation. This is clearly unlikely but it's an impossibility with the current Greek government.

Generali

chucknorris wrote: »

I didn't bother copying the second paragraph of the rules:


If any doubt exists as to the outcome of the market, Betfair may determine, using its reasonable discretion, how to settle the market based on all the information available to it at the relevant time. Betfair reserves the right to wait for further official information before the market is settled.

I guess it isn't ISDA Documentation.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

It's been rejected now but the Greeks wanted €30bn to allow them to meet their debt repayments for the next couple of years. i.e. they want their 'criminal' creditors to lend them even more money. On any other planet you'd be calling them debt junkies building up debt so their boomers can retire early.



Well I hope if that's really the intention it succeeds.

Greece are being governed by a bunch of incompetents who are trying to bluff with a pair of twos not realising everyone else can see their hand.

The deal needed is for Greece to accept the reforms and, in return, for the Eurogroup to kick our proverbial can so far into the distance we don't see it for a generation. This is clearly unlikely but it's an impossibility with the current Greek government.

So basically, sort us out, and leave the issues to our kids?

As for what the "Greeks" wanted (I assume you mean Greek government?), it was a very different package. Still kicking the can, yes, but as they are in the EU, they can apply for the type of bailout they were applying for.

I don't agree with the Greek government on everything by the way. More debt would just be kicking the can. BUT they are between a rock and a hard place.

They either take a bailout of some sort, or get chucked out of the EU. It's not as if they have a multitude of choices here. The key is to negotiate a bailout which best allows Greece to find it's way, over time, out of this mess it's in.

The EU deals don't allow this. They are simply designed to control (and punish) Greece.

The Greek government proposals would have left some room for Greece to start, at least, a path to recovery, though it would take decades.

I'm not against all bailouts, so please stop making out I am.

What I'm against, for the record, is bailouts which do absolutely nothing to solve the problem and only increase the intensity of the problem in order to control and punish the Greek nation.

And I'm totally apposed to a solution for us, here and now, intentionally passing all the problems onto our children to deal with. That's just irresponsible in every way imaginable.

As for forcing governments out, I truly hope they don't succeed. I'm surprised you hope they do suceed. The government was democratically elected. We can't have a super europe forcing governments out that they don't agree with. It would cause all manner of issues and extreme political groups.

mwpt

Graham_Devon wrote: »

What I'm against, for the record, is bailouts which do absolutely nothing to solve the problem and only increase the intensity of the problem in order to control and punish the Greek nation.

I don't believe this narrative.