Forum Update

John_Gray

MSE_Martin wrote: »

we think fixed is the right course for the site's future, but like to give users choice and have given a stretchy option as explained many times above.

It would be very nice for the considerable majority who disagree with your choice to see a reasoned argument indicating WHY you "think fixed is the right course for the site's future", as I requested (quite reasonably, I thought) in post 259... The website is an entirely different entity from the forums, of course.

MSE_Martin

Important

As this thread is getting long, to make it easy to solve problems we've started a

Forum Update Glitch List

This thread will still be read for feedback, but it will be easier for us to log and help people by separating the two.

thanks

fermi

Martin. Is you posting the same thing 3 times a forum glitch?

EDIT: Extra 2 posts now removed.

fermi

southernscouser wrote: »

Or use the white space (not the mottled grey) on the right where the news/panels are. They dominate nearly a quarter of the screen which is far too much in my opinion. I don't know how often they are used (I'm sure MSE have figures from link clicks) but I never do.

Yep. If the forum used that wasted space for it's width, then it would look quite so damn awful on my setup. Still not great, but no quite so bad.

MSE_Martin

John_Gray wrote: »

It would be very nice for the considerable majority who disagree with your choice to see a reasoned argument indicating WHY you "think fixed is the right course for the site's future", as I requested (quite reasonably, I thought) in post 259... The website is an entirely different entity from the forums, of course.

I have already explained some of this is posts above. Though you probably haven't seen them because this is a long thread. It's worth remembering the primary change here is actually the masthead that works across the whole site, not just the forum.

As for the forum, we've been testing and getting feedback from people who find the forum too complex, and don't know how to use it - and this is reflected by our high bounce rate in here.

One of the things said is that the difficulty of reading across a stretchy page, so you have huge long lines, both in posts and menus is very offputting.

The overall layout and design is also a problem - and going fixed allows us to put design in, so everyone can see it as intended in a clear way - designing stretchy can cause all types of problems. And the forum is one part of the site - we want to try and integrate the best bits of each across all parts.

We haven't started that yet - we wanted to get the new masthead out first (redesigning MSE is like the fourth bridge, you start at one end and as you get round again you need to start again).

While feedback from regular registered users who are active and post is important - it is only a small proportion of site users. Though it is a very crucial one. To consider those users, and any who didnt like the change, unlike many sites which redesign we catered to the regular users by giving an option to switch.

Non logged in users go with our house style - which is fixed - or at least is for the moment while we test it.

We need to give it some time to compare bounce rates, usage on page, number of page used and navigation to see how it works and that can only be done by setting the default to fixed (A-B testing in the forums is a nightmare)

Running a site isn't easy, we don't always get it right. And are happy to listen to feedback as are doing. Yet it is frustrating when people won't let you try new things and see how they work - without demanding you switch it back instantly - even when you provide a rollback option for those who don't like it.

Every time we have changed things on the forum we've faced opposition, but each time once people get used to it they would go ballistic if we changed it back. Now of course that doesn't automatically mean we've got this right this time - but it does mean we need some time to see if we've got it right.

Of course the opposition may stay and we may find new users turning away in droves too. In which case we switch it back. We may find that actually people get used to it and love it. Or more likely somewhere between the two.

We aim to work on making some of the problems people have with the fixed width go away - yet again that can't be done overnight.

We know the new width current look isn't perfect, and can be improved (we aim to get more writing space in it, and look at where the Right Hand side goes amongst other things). Yet we believe it is still an improvement on the old look - but I admit we dont yet have the data on it (rough data will come in for the first time Thur am).

Yet this must be couched with the fact we haven't rolled this out as a fait accompi, we've given all our registered users a choice of width and will continue to monitor the impact on all site users.

Martin

nilrem_2

TBH I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

When I found it changed yesterday it was a bit of a shock but after following the instructions given I have got it how I like it pretty quickly.

IMHO some people are nit pickers! Lol

John_Gray

Thanks, Martin - your reply is considerably more intellectually satisfying than the previous argument from authority, and contains many reasonable points.

jem16

nilrem wrote: »

When I found it changed yesterday it was a bit of a shock but after following the instructions given I have got it how I like it pretty quickly.

So have you chosen the stretchy look or kep the default fixed look?

I think the main problem is that the change to fixed width has caused such a negatvive response ( look at Post 2 - i have never had so many thanks) that many are worried that the option to choose stretchy will eventually be removed. Martin said that future developments meant that it couldn't be guaranteed to work with anything other than the default. Earlier in the thread it seemed to be, "like it or lump it" but thankfully that seems to have at least changed.

The opinion of many of the current regulars has to be considered. After all they are the ones who make this forum what it is. Without them who would offer help, advice etc?

At the moment the fixed width is unusable for me. I have accepted all the other changes, in some cases it's taken a wee while to get used to them, but the fixed width doesn't work for me I'm afraid.

Tigsteroonie

MSE_Martin wrote: »

We haven't started that yet - we wanted to get the new masthead out first (redesigning MSE is like the fourth bridge, you start at one end and as you get round again you need to start again).

Can I just point out that the Forth Bridge is now finished?

Forth Bridge Painting Complete

jem16

Tigsteroonie wrote: »

Can I just point out that the Forth Bridge is now finished?

Forth Bridge Painting Complete

Perhaps Martin is referring to a different fourth bridge than the one over the River Forth?